Are Christians actually worshiping the Father of Jesus?

[mystic64]

LOL! No! Your logic is just faulty.


I think if he was God, or part of a trinity he would have taught that.



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All we have to go on are the quoted words of Lord Jesus that have been passed down to us from a 2000 year old past and filtered through three different languages if one is english speaking. And anything else but those quoted words would be just pure speculation. And because Lord Jesus for the most part talked in parables understanding the meaning of those quoted words starts to become speculation also.

From there we have the quoted words of some of those that were present to witness the actions and words of Lord Jesus that have been passed down to us from a 2000 year old past and filtered through three languages if one is english speaking. And all of the witnesses have differnt approaches to sharing what they witnessed. And sorting that out also starts to become speculation.

Because of this "starts to become speculation" phenomanon there are many different versions of what it takes to be considered a follower of Lord Jesus and a reciever of the rewards that His followers are intitled to. On top of that the return of Lord Jesus is the foundation belief of all Christians and Lord Jesus said that He would be right back (return soon) but also that His return depended on the will of the Father. That was two thousand years ago which is actually only two days Heaven time. This also leads to "starts to become spectulation."

And until I and other Christians become a living example of what Lord Jesus was teaching and was an example of and "are known by our works" as He was, most of what I and other Christian say has to be considered spectulation.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

LOL! No! Your logic is just faulty.


I think if he was God, or part of a trinity he would have taught that.

What does the bible say....John 1:1?

Rest my case.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

How silly ... no one cares about Paris Hilton - so it really doesn't matter. But if someone is in a position to deserve the status of being the Almighty's Son - he must at least claim so. But not only did he not claim that, rather his teaching was quite contradictory to such claims.

I would ask you to listen to the following lecture by Dr. Jerald F. Dirks that shows even early christians had quite a different take on the Divinity of Jesus(pbuh). Dr. Dirks has a Master of Divinity from Harvard Divinity School.
[youtube]2m4KW-dysKk[/youtube]
From Jesus to Muhammad: A History of Early Christianity - YouTube

Peace.

I only used the Paris Hilton thing as a way to point out the illogic. You are right, no one cares about Paris Hilton, but we do care about Jesus Christ and the nature of his Deity.

 

[mystic64]

Quote=Call
Yogi...Mario, and Luigi

Quote=Ingle
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you."

For the viewers the word "yoga" is generally translated into English as the word "yoke" or "to yoke". A yogi is a person who studies one or more ways to become "yoked" to something. To a Christian yogi that something is the Father of Jesus and is done/studied through the teaching and guidance of the Holy Spirit with Lord Jesus as your master, Christ, and Savior. And this is done in the spirit of, "Go to your closet and pray."

The only reason that I studied yogi stuff was because in my early twenties I became aware of the fact that a lot of Christians were seeking yoga gurus because they were seeking a closer relationship to God than what the general Christian leadership was able to provide with their ways of shepherding. And there were Hindu grurus that were promising that their approach to "God" was more functional than what was generally being offered by the various Christian churches and organizations. And as it turned out what they had promised was not true and did not lead to a closer relationship to the Father of Jesus or to Lord Jesus Himself. At the sametime the concept of becoming "yoked" to something and that something being the Father of Jesus turned out, at least to me, to be very valuble information. And from a speculative angle scripture seems to indicate, at least to me, that a part of what Lord Jesus is quoted to have said was how one can become "yoked" to His Father and that He was an example of that state of being.

And let those who understand understand and let those that do not understand not understand . All is well !

 

[kjw47]

What does the bible say....John 1:1?

Rest my case.

Many translations in history had an a in the last line of John 1:1-as well as a small g--others said -was divine.
Fact--The greeks didn't write a, or an in their written language, the translator had to know where to put them--it was error to leave it out of John 1:1. to be in harmony with Jesus' truths.

a god( small g) means--has godlike qualities. this is how-Acts 2:22--Gods power goes through Jesus.

 

[Ingledsva]

What does the bible say....John 1:1?

Rest my case.

John 1 does not say what you think it does.


Look it up in the Greek.


John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (unfolds a teaching)


(In the Bosom) is a colloquialism, meaning "in tight with," lying in the Bosom of the head person at the banquet table, - today - bosom buddy.


Jesus is not the only one called begotten of God -


Psalm 2:7 in the Bible: "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. (King David)

Or SON of God -


Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn."


Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn."


Also - the books were written long after the events - by people that were not there.


Also - obviously - John 1:1 is NOT Jesus saying he is God, or part of a trinity.



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[Ingledsva]

...

Quote=Ingle
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you."

... ![/FONT][/B]

And why are you quoting the funny quote I found and placed at the bottom? I found it to be the perfect funny quote for this whole site, as people are constantly misreading, or misunderstanding, or misquoting.


I hope you are not implying that I would do such purposely? Which would be wrong!


PS. I am Ingledsva, or my nickname - Ing.



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[mystic64]

And why are you quoting the funny quote I found and placed at the bottom? I found it to be the perfect funny quote for this whole site, as people are constantly misreading, or misunderstanding, or misquoting.


I hope you are not implying that I would do such purposely? Which would be wrong!


PS. I am Ingledsva, or my nickname - Ing.



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Sorry Ms Ingledsva and thank you for correcting me. Ms Ingledsva your funny quote is the nature of all message boards that are thriving nicely and that nature is a part of what makes the message board enviornment an interesting study. I have been looking for a way to place it in one of my posts for a while now because its wisdom is a timeless message board reality and a constant bug-a-boo . I applogize if it was missplaced or missunderstood.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Many translations in history had an a in the last line of John 1:1-as well as a small g--others said -was divine.
Fact--The greeks didn't write a, or an in their written language, the translator had to know where to put them--it was error to leave it out of John 1:1. to be in harmony with Jesus' truths.

a god( small g) means--has godlike qualities. this is how-Acts 2:22--Gods power goes through Jesus.

So what does it mean to have "godlike" qualities?

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

John 1 does not say what you think it does.


Look it up in the Greek.


John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (unfolds a teaching)


(In the Bosom) is a colloquialism, meaning "in tight with," lying in the Bosom of the head person at the banquet table, - today - bosom buddy.

How about addressing the scripture that I presented, which is John 1:1?

Also - the books were written long after the events - by people that were not there.

I've already answered this in prior posts, which you've failed to respond to but yet you are repeating the same thing as if no one gave you an answer...like I said, taxi cab fallacy.

 

[Ingledsva]

How about addressing the scripture that I presented, which is John 1:1?



I've already answered this in prior posts, which you've failed to respond to but yet you are repeating the same thing as if no one gave you an answer...like I said, taxi cab fallacy.

I did discuss it - I told you it does not say what you think it does - and to look it up in the Greek for yourself'


And John 1:18 PROVES that it does not say what you think. Jesus is NOT God.


John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (unfolds a teaching)


At ant time - hence Jesus is NOT God.


Now stop with the stupid "taxi cab fallacy." Repeating it does not make it so.


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[Ingledsva]

Sorry Ms Ingledsva and thank you for correcting me. Ms Ingledsva your funny quote is the nature of all message boards that are thriving nicely and that nature is a part of what makes the message board enviornment an interesting study. I have been looking for a way to place it in one of my posts for a while now because its wisdom is a timeless message board reality and a constant bug-a-boo . I applogize if it was missplaced or missunderstood.

Geeez! Ms Ingledsva - sounds like my librarian Grandmother. LOL!

Ing - Ing - Ing.



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[Call_of_the_Wild]

And John 1:18 PROVES that it does not say what you think. Jesus is NOT God.


John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (unfolds a teaching)


At ant time - hence Jesus is NOT God.

Apparently someone needs to get you up to speed on the Trinity doctrine, because if you were up to speed, you would know that John 1:8 is stating that no one has seen the FATHER, but the Son has been seen. Plus, Jesus was called God by doubting Thomas (John 20:28) and John 5:18 states that just by calling God his "Father", he was making himself equal with God. To be equal with God is to BE God. So once again, it would be nice if you would know about the subject matter before you speak on it.

Now stop with the stupid "taxi cab fallacy." Repeating it does not make it so.

It isn't stupid, it is a accurate depiction of your irrational reasoning.

 

[ZooGirl02]

Well, from what I understand of orthodox Christian doctrine is that they do worship God the Father Who according to orthodox Christian doctrine is the First Person of the Trinity. That's my opinion.

 

[mystic64]

Geeez! Ms Ingledsva - sounds like my librarian Grandmother. LOL!

Ing - Ing - Ing.



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I respect you and I respect your wisdom. Ing

 

[mystic64]

Apparently someone needs to get you up to speed on the Trinity doctrine, because if you were up to speed, you would know that John 1:8 is stating that no one has seen the FATHER, but the Son has been seen. Plus, Jesus was called God by doubting Thomas (John 20:28) and John 5:18 states that just by calling God his "Father", he was making himself equal with God. To be equal with God is to BE God. So once again, it would be nice if you would know about the subject matter before you speak on it.



It isn't stupid, it is a accurate depiction of your irrational reasoning.

John 20:31. "but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name." This scripture was written by John to streighten out the confusion that was created by Thomas when he said that Jesus was God.

And Lord Jesus is constantly saying that He is doing the "will" of His Father. If Jesus was God the Father, then He would be doing His own will and not the will of the His Father. By you claiming that Lord Jesus is God the Father, you are claiming that Jesus was lying to us everytime He said that He was doing the will of His Father.

 

[mystic64]

Footnote: And you will also notice that the Gospel of Thomas and his other writings did not make it into the Christian Bible.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Well, from what I understand of orthodox Christian doctrine is that they do worship God the Father Who according to orthodox Christian doctrine is the First Person of the Trinity. That's my opinion.

That is an accurate depiction of the the Trinity.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

John 20:31. "but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."

This scripture was written by John to streighten out the confusion that was created by Thomas when he said that Jesus was God.

The John 20:28 scripture states that Thomas called Jesus "God" right to his face. If Jesus isn't God, then I would expect Jesus to say "Now just a second, Thomas...I am not God, there is only one God, and that is my Father", or something along those lines. I mean after all, calling someone God besides the Father would be blasphamy, especially from a Jewish perspective. But instead of rebuking Thomas for calling him God, what did Jesus say? He said "You have seen, therefore you believe; blessed are those who have not seen, and STILL believe". No rebuke there.

And Lord Jesus is constantly saying that He is doing the "will" of His Father. If Jesus was God the Father, then He would be doing His own will and not the will of the His Father. By you claiming that Lord Jesus is God the Father, you are claiming that Jesus was lying to us everytime He said that He was doing the will of His Father.

As I told you on a previous post, Trinitarians do not believe that Jesus and God the Father are the same PERSON...we believe that Jesus and the Father are two seperate beings, both whom share the title of "God", because of their nature. Both are equally God, and the Holy Spirit is also.

 

[loverOfTruth]

I only used the Paris Hilton thing as a way to point out the illogic. You are right, no one cares about Paris Hilton, but we do care about Jesus Christ and the nature of his Deity.

Yes, I was just pointing out the fault in your logic. Because the most rational and logical thing is that if He was God or physical Son of God, he would have made that clear to everyone and not left with some ambiguous statement. And he never claimed divinity for himself, neither did the early Christians as mentioned in the video.