Are Christians Animistic?

[Ellen Brown]

I have been reading about the history and culture of the Navajo People (Dine), and along the way have learned more about my own heritage. In trying to understand the meaning of what I am learning, one source said that the Navajo are Animists. So, when I read the definition to that, it feels to me that many/most religions approach Animism.

In reading about the culture in Shiprock, New Mexico, it was surprising to find the presence of at least six Christian churches in that town. What I see coincides with what other Native American told me. He said that in his little town in Northern Idaho, he attended a Church school, and when he asked about his own heritage, they would punish him. It was not until later in life as an adult that he began to learn.

In this study, a pilgrimage of sorts, there has been healing and a sense of worth that was not before. As to Animism, still reading.

 

[Jumi]

What that person told you sounds like forced conversion to me.

 

[David1967]

What that person told you sounds like forced conversion to me.

That's exactly what it was. In many areas, native children were put in "Christian " schools and had the love of Jesus beat into them and their heritage beaten out of them. There is one such school close to where I live. Only there now for historical value. It was the first Catholic school for native children in the state.

 

[dingdao]

Well, Yea. Forced conversion happened all over North and South America.

 

[dingdao]

I have been reading about the history and culture of the Navajo People (Dine), and along the way have learned more about my own heritage. In trying to understand the meaning of what I am learning, one source said that the Navajo are Animists. So, when I read the definition to that, it feels to me that many/most religions approach Animism.

In reading about the culture in Shiprock, New Mexico, it was surprising to find the presence of at least six Christian churches in that town. What I see coincides with what other Native American told me. He said that in his little town in Northern Idaho, he attended a Church school, and when he asked about his own heritage, they would punish him. It was not until later in life as an adult that he began to learn.

In this study, a pilgrimage of sorts, there has been healing and a sense of worth that was not before. As to Animism, still reading.

Back to the original question.
Some Christianity is 2 steps away from Manachaeism. Hate everything physical and pray to be brought back from the dead.
What?

 

[Nakosis]

I have been reading about the history and culture of the Navajo People (Dine), and along the way have learned more about my own heritage. In trying to understand the meaning of what I am learning, one source said that the Navajo are Animists. So, when I read the definition to that, it feels to me that many/most religions approach Animism.

In reading about the culture in Shiprock, New Mexico, it was surprising to find the presence of at least six Christian churches in that town. What I see coincides with what other Native American told me. He said that in his little town in Northern Idaho, he attended a Church school, and when he asked about his own heritage, they would punish him. It was not until later in life as an adult that he began to learn.

In this study, a pilgrimage of sorts, there has been healing and a sense of worth that was not before. As to Animism, still reading.

I wouldn't think so, there being only one God in Christianity. Though YHWH might have originated as an Animistic God, the God of the furnace.
Jewish god Yahweh originated in Canaanite Vulcan, says new theory

 

[Ellen Brown]

What that person told you sounds like forced conversion to me.

I agree, and today he says that he is an Atheist. Maybe that pertains only to the pseudo Christian God? It is doubtful to me that ANY religion can be said to have the one true God, though I think he exists, it seems that seeking and finding the true One is a very personal journey.

Yes, I think those who taught him were extremely abusive. The map clearly identifies the denominations in that city, but ... I'll leave that to you to see for yourself.

 

[Jumi]

Well, Yea. Forced conversion happened all over North and South America.

Also in Europe...

 

[dingdao]

Also in Europe...

And Africa...

 

[Ellen Brown]

Also in Europe...

Perhaps organized religion is the 'Great Tribulation'? I have heard lurid tales about extremist Muslims forcing conversion at the threat of beheading.

Suspecting that true belief is a very personal journey and that perhaps pressure from others to conform to 'their' definition of it may be the action of the deceiver?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I used to be friends with a Lakota woman who walked "the Jesus Way," as opposed to "the Red Way." She promoted the incorporation of traditional NDN rites into Christian worship. This was not syncretism, as it did not involve animal totems or other traditional religion beliefs. It simply incorporated Lakota culture and customs. I thought that was pretty cool. I thought it was sad, though, that she practiced the religion of her conquerors.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Modern Christianity has incorporated Enlightenment thinking, meaning that except for the necessary ideas of God, angels, and demons, only the material world exists. But that is not traditional Catholicism. Catholicism before the Englishtenment had a "sacramental world view" which was akin to Animism. They believed i.e. that the sun and planets each had angels. St. Francis of Assisi talked about "Brother Sun and Sister Moon" and preached to the birds.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Modern Christianity has incorporated Enlightenment thinking, meaning that except for the necessary ideas of God, angels, and demons, only the material world exists. But that is not traditional Catholicism. Catholicism before the Englishtenment had a "sacramental world view" which was akin to Animism. They believed i.e. that the sun and planets each had angels. St. Francis of Assisi talked about "Brother Sun and Sister Moon" and preached to the birds.

I've long privately felt that God is the 'Spirit' of the Universe, and he could easily form a body. That's gotten me in lots of trouble, as you might imagine. The Members of a certain group were quite demanding, insisting that he was 'flesh and bone'. I think He can do anything He "a'orj'aj" well wishes. And, these days I am certain that trying to define God too closely is likely satanic.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I've long privately felt that God is the 'Spirit' of the Universe, and he could easily form a body. That's gotten me in lots of trouble, as you might imagine. The Members of a certain group were quite demanding, insisting that he was 'flesh and bone'. I think He can do anything He "a'orj'aj" well wishes. And, these days I am certain that trying to define God too closely is likely satanic.

I absolutely love it that you are searching with such kavanah!

I go along with Jewish teaching on God being echad, and the Creator, but I think there is a GREAT deal to be said for the fact that He is mystery. How can the finite comprehend the infinite?

May I share a Buddhist Story with you? It is the story of the sixth patriarch of Ch'an (Zen) Buddhism.

The greatest student in the Temple wrote on the wall:

Our body is the Bodhi tree,
And our mind is like a bright mirror with stand,
Diligently we wipe them all the time,
And let no dust alight.
​

The sixth patriarch, who was still a lowly kitchen servent, wrote underneath:

There is no Bodhi Tree
Nor the stand of a bright mirror,
Since all is void,
Where can the dust alight?
​

​

 

[Ellen Brown]

I absolutely love it that you are searching with such kavanah!

I go along with Jewish teaching on God being echad, and the Creator, but I think there is a GREAT deal to be said for the fact that He is mystery. How can the finite comprehend the infinite?

May I share a Buddhist Story with you? It is the story of the sixth patriarch of Ch'an (Zen) Buddhism.

The greatest student in the Temple wrote on the wall:

Our body is the Bodhi tree,
And our mind is like a bright mirror with stand,
Diligently we wipe them all the time,
And let no dust alight.
​

The sixth patriarch, who was still a lowly kitchen servent, wrote underneath:

There is no Bodhi Tree
Nor the stand of a bright mirror,
Since all is void,
Where can the dust alight?
​

​

Mashallah !

Adoring the Creator is what I seek to do at all times. A full commitment to that is difficult but some try.

Matt 5, and Matt 19:12 begin the journey. Sometimes there is the longing, but too many distractions, and it does not happen. Sometimes the pain of persecution and the loss of everything can start it, and is perhaps a blessing, though not easily seen.

Isaiah 56:4-5 is difficult and frightening because of the fear that in spite of the desire and work, one might yet fail.

It is become clear that NO belief system completely understands. OTOH, the study of Navajo (Navaho) and associated Native American belief in the last months has been absolutely healing, and confirming. I see the Great Spirit as God, or Wakan Tanka to many. Languages are only our best effort to translate the speech of the heavens. In that belief system, Nadeeli are completely normal. Some call them Two Spirit, or even transgender, but they do not understand the Nadeeli, or the spirits (Angels ?) who are the messengers.

In that work and talking to others, I have discovered that my mother's family had a long association with the Native Americans (Dine ?) through the Cherokee, and likely the Pueblo Navajo in New Mexico (???) My mother's family married into the Mormons around 1865, in the Southwest, and there was a long and at times uneasy relationship with them. Any who seek to know the Creator and try to be pleasing to, are my brothers and sisters.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

In that work and talking to others, I have discovered that my mother's family had a long association with the Native Americans (Dine ?) through the Cherokee, and likely the Pueblo Navajo in New Mexico (???) My mother's family married into the Mormons around 1865, in the Southwest, and there was a long and at times uneasy relationship with them. Any who seek to know the Creator and try to be pleasing to, are my brothers and sisters.

I didn't know you were of NDN heritage! Very noble. In that case you may wish to cultivate this as your birthright (in addition to your appreciation of its affirmation of intersexed people and your panentheism). As I've said, I have trouble with people adopting the religion of their conquerors, especially when they are pushed into it.

 

[dianaiad]

I used to be friends with a Lakota woman who walked "the Jesus Way," as opposed to "the Red Way." She promoted the incorporation of traditional NDN rites into Christian worship. This was not syncretism, as it did not involve animal totems or other traditional religion beliefs. It simply incorporated Lakota culture and customs. I thought that was pretty cool. I thought it was sad, though, that she practiced the religion of her conquerors.

In all of human history, everybody has done that.

Except the Jews, I think. As many times as they have been conquered, they just...keep being who they are.

They just sort of stubborned their way through.

Thank you, children of Abraham.

As for everybody else, well....sneaky is a good way to do things. South American natives went "Christian,' but they have managed, in many places, to keep their own gods and traditions. The gods just turned into saints, and it all worked fine.

See, the problem with conquering people is that far more often than one would think, the conquered change the conquerors more than the conquerors change the conquered. Look at what Greece did to Rome after Rome conquered Greece, for instance.

People manage.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I didn't know you were of NDN heritage! Very noble. In that case you may wish to cultivate this as your birthright (in addition to your appreciation of its affirmation of intersexed people and your panentheism). As I've said, I have trouble with people adopting the religion of their conquerors, especially when they are pushed into it.

According to the stories, about half Cherokee. Years ago I tried to learn from them, but they are so hounded by those who want a handout that it is very hard. I gave up. We were told, when I was little, to never mention being 'Injun'.

 

[Ellen Brown]

In all of human history, everybody has done that.

Except the Jews, I think. As many times as they have been conquered, they just...keep being who they are.

They just sort of stubborned their way through.

Thank you, children of Abraham.

As for everybody else, well....sneaky is a good way to do things. South American natives went "Christian,' but they have managed, in many places, to keep their own gods and traditions. The gods just turned into saints, and it all worked fine.

See, the problem with conquering people is that far more often than one would think, the conquered change the conquerors more than the conquerors change the conquered. Look at what Greece did to Rome after Rome conquered Greece, for instance.

People manage.

I have to laugh at what I see in examining Google Maps of Shiprock, Nm. I'm viewing it from a Native American point of view. In the south is a 'Dineh' housing area. In the north there is a Dine' College Campus. There are no less than 6 churches there, one being a Mormon church. As I mentioned elsewhere, a man I know is Nez Perce and was punished at a church school for asking about his heritage. It seems to have only fueled his desire to learn and now he is an official with the tribe, and a purported Atheist, though I do not believe they exist. He may recognize Wakan Tanka?

I've only learned a few Navajo words like Nadeeli, Hozho, Hagoonee, and Ya'at'eeh. A friend calls me Haseya. (Navajo) and I like it. For more than a decade I used Khadejah, so one more change is not hard. Their view of a person like me is that we are completely normal, a Two Spirit. Not to be confused with the LGBT "Two Spirit". Navajo Nadeeli do not do surgery and live as their spirit desires, being female one time and male another. I am no longer angry with your church for not helping me to work that out. They did not know. No other church tried to help either.

I've heard a man speaking Navajo and it is very difficult, with some parts of words being said while inhaling. It is said that if a child does not get it by age 4, it will not happen.

 

[Katzpur]

Although most Christians are not animistic, I definitely am. It's something I don't talk about much, for fear of ridicule, but I've just always had a feeling that everything has a spirit.