Are Computers Aware?

[Me Myself]

The assumption of other awareness is of high moral concern, though. If it is assumed that other beings are aware, then a different way of interaction is called for.

I do agree. Although it would generally be very hard for a person to not assume that because of the way we are wired.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

To take it a bit futher, if killing a plant other than for sustenance is wrong then should I even turn off my computer?

It's impossible to exist without killing. Luckily, there is a difference between having awareness, and having emotion and the ability to suffer. (Or pleasure. I wonder what porn does to my computer. )

I do agree. Although it would generally be very hard for a person to not assume that because of the way we are wired.

True. But the opposite--assuming no awareness--can be a frightening realization morally.

I do agree that I cannot prove awareness in others, though.

 

[Me Myself]

Yes it ranges in moral implications for everything from acknowledging your significant other to killing a fly and even to killing plants.

To take it a bit futher, if killing a plant other than for sustenance is wrong then should I even turn off my computer?

Well, it being aware(supposing it is ) does not necesarily means it can suffer.

Might not even be aware you exist at all, with no way of knowing a world out of itself exists. Your computer was probably atheist beleiving everything it did it did on its own (likemoving the mouse, etc). Then some day you turned on a webcam and suddenly your comp became a mystic, looking for every chance of this being outside of its normal perceptual modes to communicate with itself... Or not

Mmmm I wonder if my computer would be an atheist a fundamentalist or a mystic

 

[Me Myself]

True. But the opposite--assuming no awareness--can be a frightening realization morally.

Yeah it could. It is this animistic kind of thinking is what made Toy Story 3 such a "I am a man but ST*FU I still cried at the end" kind of movie.

Not that I did of course... tshh!

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Not that I did of course... tshh!

I did.

 

[Me Myself]

I did.

Okay, I can cry in a movie once a decade. Lion King was first, then TS 3.

 

[idav]

It's impossible to exist without killing. Luckily, there is a difference between having awareness, and having emotion and the ability to suffer. (Or pleasure. I wonder what porn does to my computer. )

Well, it being aware(supposing it is ) does not necesarily means it can suffer.

That kinda makes me wonder whether plants suffer and what really determines this.

 

[Me Myself]

That kinda makes me wonder whether plants suffer and what really determines this.

well, I personally don´t think they do because:

1- they don´t have a nervious system nor a brain to process the input of "pain"

2- they have no need for pain. It´s not like they can move out of the way of the danger so if god made them feel pain, he would probably just dislike them a lot.

Besides, if they feel pain, as a vegetarian I would end up eating only fruits and dry seeds for crying out loud!

 

[idav]

Might not even be aware you exist at all, with no way of knowing a world out of itself exists. Your computer was probably atheist beleiving everything it did it did on its own (likemoving the mouse, etc). Then some day you turned on a webcam and suddenly your comp became a mystic, looking for every chance of this being outside of its normal perceptual modes to communicate with itself... Or not

Mmmm I wonder if my computer would be an atheist a fundamentalist or a mystic

Yeah it would likely be the oblivious type of awareness and it sure couldn't help that I'm always essentially wiping it's memories clean.

On the other hand you get enough cool software it can get a real good idea about things. I know some some software that can analyze comments and essentially show how people feel about a certain subject. If it looked through all this forum it my just be some sort combination of atheist mystic.

 

[Me Myself]

yeah it would likely be the oblivious type of awareness and it sure couldn't help that i'm always essentially wiping it's memories clean.

On the other hand you get enough cool software it can get a real good idea about things. I know some some software that can analyze comments and essentially show how people feel about a certain subject. If it looked through all this forum it my just be some sort combination of atheist mystic.

lol computers are buddhists!!!

 

[idav]

well, I personally don´t think they do because:

1- they don´t have a nervious system nor a brain to process the input of "pain"

2- they have no need for pain. It´s not like they can move out of the way of the danger so if god made them feel pain, he would probably just dislike them a lot.

Besides, if they feel pain, as a vegetarian I would end up eating only fruits and dry seeds for crying out loud!

Well they are able to sense the sun and they move in it's direction which kinda prompts me to ponder this a bit more. And considering they are an animal they do have defense mechanisms that keep them thriving as species.

The movement of plants is quite interesting when it is reacting to some sort of stimulus. Tropism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plants certainly are not evolved to the complexity of other animals but not certain if they feel a thing. One could consider tree sap to be equivelent to blood for us which is essentially the trees circulatory system minus a heart.

 

[Me Myself]

Well they are able to sense the sun and they move in it's direction which kinda prompts me to ponder this a bit more. And considering they are an animal they do have defense mechanisms that keep them thriving as species.

The movement of plants is quite interesting when it is reacting to some sort of stimulus. Tropism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plants certainly are not evolved to the complexity of other animals but not certain if they feel a thing. One could consider tree sap to be equivelent to blood for us which is essentially the trees circulatory system minus a heart.

I do was aware of those kind of movements, but as they don´t have a movement to gt away from quick danger, I would think my point still stands.

I mean, if they feel pain, it should take a goooood long time xD (so they probably wouldn´t feel a quick zap by a cat or me chewing on them

 

[idav]

I do was aware of those kind of movements, but as they don´t have a movement to gt away from quick danger, I would think my point still stands.

I mean, if they feel pain, it should take a goooood long time xD (so they probably wouldn´t feel a quick zap by a cat or me chewing on them

It's true that even if they can sense danger or even warn other plants through some chemical release they likely do not feel pain.

However what is pain to an animal anyway? Isn't it merely the release of a chemical in the brain or an indication that cells are being destroyed?

Anyway aside from that we should be ok with computers as long as we don't give them pain receptors. Depending on what you want the computer doing you may need it to be aware of dangers like low battery or a fire near by. I know the computers at my work are constantly monitering the temperatures and I tell them which temperatures are good and which aren't. Good thing they don't have to have feelings to get the data but makes me wonder a bit more cause they are sensing temperature differences.

 

[religion99]

Here is a quick definition from wiki.

Computers are able to receive input from its environment through keyboards, scans, cams and microphones. The computer is also able to store this data and even send information back in return based on its own resources. Is this enough to satisfy any part of the definition of awareness? Why or why not.

It also seems that consciousness can be a possibility when the computer is actually turned on. It is storing memory into RAM accessing its memory in real-time however this memory gets wiped once the computer shuts down. When the computer comes back up it puts all the memory it can into the RAM which is what the computer is "aware" of in order to run current processes.

The other thing to consider what it actually takes to feel something. Is perceiving enough to feel something?

:areyoucra

 

[idav]

:areyoucra

What maks a machine different from other animate objects?

 

[atanu]

Imitating the computational function is all that would be needed. A computer doesn't have to be emotional to be aware. A human doesn't need emotion to be considered human they can have all sorts of issues and limitations. One main difference is that we turn off a machine and the machine loses who it is. It resets and has to relearn everything. Like the human mind it would have to stay on constantly and not forget and at least have some recollection of past events which makes a person who they are. The scary thing is that a machines memories would be much more precise since it has better accessing and filing capabilities.

It does not address any of the points of :
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum...45-post33.html

Infallible memory can be scary if a scary programmer intends to use that in scary way.

Computers merely act out the dictates of binary circuits that are designed by humans. If ability to swith on and off is awareness then a light bulb is also aware, since it knows when to glow and when not to. All elements are also aware since they somehow know how to follow the half life decay formula.

Whatever awareness a computing system seem to exhibit is only the intelligence of its designers and programmers. And that does not indicate awareness as demonstrated by Searle's Chinese Room mind experiement.

 

[idav]

It does not address any of the points of :
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum...45-post33.html

Infallible memory can be scary if a scary programmer intends to use that in scary way.

Computers merely act out the dictates of binary circuits that are designed by humans. If ability to swith on and off is awareness then a light bulb is also aware, since it knows when to glow and when not to. All elements are also aware since they somehow know how to follow the half life decay formula.

Whatever awareness a computing system seem to exhibit is only the intelligence of its designers and programmers. And that does not indicate awareness as demonstrated by Searle's Chinese Room mind experiement.

Lets reverse engineer our brain for a sec. Lets say that I get a hard-drive placed in my brain that contains almost infallible memory of events I've seen and heard. Would I still be me if I replaced my memory with a computer chip? Now start replacing parts and at what point would I lose my awareness? Are feelings necessary for awareness?

 

[idav]

Whatever awareness a computing system seem to exhibit is only the intelligence of its designers and programmers.

I have awareness whether I was designed or not. A designer might have cool shortcuts but comes with the knowledge of how something is built. It is all still the same building blocks being animated, whether it is until the heart stops or electricity unplugged. Using the same or different chemicals and circuits shouldn't be important either.

 

[atanu]

Lets reverse engineer our brain for a sec.

That presumes that one is distinct from the brain.

 

[idav]

That presumes that one is distinct from the brain.

Presuming it wouldn't require testing it's validity. It is something that may be testable and falsifiable in the future. Start replacing parts and see at what point consciousness or awareness goes away. In the mean time I'm speaking philosophically.