Spirits do provide explanatory potential for things so-called paranormal.It's an actual explanation rooted in reality as we know it, as opposed to one that provides no explanatory power like ghosts.
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Spirits do provide explanatory potential for things so-called paranormal.It's an actual explanation rooted in reality as we know it, as opposed to one that provides no explanatory power like ghosts.
I was thinking about making that another thread topic. Maybe some are!About as reasonable as saying all the multiple dozens of crop circles around the world are from aliens.
I had an unexpected inconvenience happen to me while I was walking around outside of the hotel a little while ago, so I'm back in my hotel room. I'm planning to stay here for the rest of the afternoon. You can send me a private message and ask me these questions, if you want to. I'd be more than happy to answer your questions in a private discussion rather than here in the thread.So your spirit box is being quite active, How does yours work? How do you know it's active? Do you hear things in real-time or do you have to play it back later?
Is it intended to capture spirit voices?
Are you comparing living voices with discarnate voices. Two pretty different animals.
How so? You can't describe what they are, how they operate, or how to measure or analyze them in any way. You can't even show they exist at all.Spirits do provide explanatory potential for things so-called paranormal.
Spirits do provide explanatory potential for things so-called paranormal.
In my view spirits are not these mysterious inventions as you try to frame it. It may indeed seem that way to mainstream science but I have interests in more than mainstream science. I am a student of wisdom traditions, Theosophical, Vedic (Hindu) and Spiritualist that do indeed have an understanding of what spirits are.How so? You can't describe what they are, how they operate, or how to measure or analyze them in any way. You can't even show they exist at all.
So in essence you're saying "here's this thing we don't understand. The reason it's happening is because of this other thing we don't understand and can't explain or demonstrate."
How does that offer any explanatory power? I mean, what would be the difference if I just made something up and declared it was that. These EVPs are being caused by snerflebergers. That offers the same explanatory power that your "explanation" does, which is to say none.
And on top of that, you wave away perfectly reasonable and natural explanations that would easily apply (e.g. pareidolia) in favour if this unexplainable "explanation" that it's intelligent spirits.
Wow, that's a lot of stuff. I think a lot of the increase may be fueled by the recent proliferation of information on cable TV and the internet; media that never existed before very recent times.I wanted to tell you that I appreciate your zeal for the paranormal, George. In fact, believing in the existence of ghosts and other paranormal occurrences has become more accepted in our society. According to one recent survey of 2,000 people aged 21 and over, 63 percent believe in the paranormal in some form. That means two-thirds of Americans believe in human spirits and aliens from other planets. Moreover, the participants in the survey said the most common unexplained beings they believe exist include ghosts (57%), aliens (39%), and Bigfoot (27%). A third (35%) of the people surveyed said they have felt an unexplained presence in their home, prompting them to believe that they’re being haunted. You can read more about this recent survey from October 2021 here: "ParanormalNation: Nearly two-thirds of Americans believe in ghosts or aliens." Here is another recent survey from October 2021: "57 Percent of Americans Believe in Ghosts — and Many Think There's Paranormal Activity in Their Home." As you can see by the dates of the articles linked below, believing in the paranormal has been gaining momentum over the last twenty-plus years.
Gallup Poll: One Third of Americans Believe in Ghosts (2000)
Americans' Belief in Psychic and Paranormal Phenomena Is up Over Last Decade (2001)
Three in Four Americans Believe in Paranormal (2005)
Brilliant Scientists Are Open-Minded about Paranormal Stuff, So Why Not You? (2012)
Spooky Number Of Americans Believe In Ghosts (2013; updated 2017)
Pew Research Center: 18% of Americans say they’ve seen a ghost (2015)
Paranormal America 2017 Chapman University Survey of American Fears (2017)
Paranormal America 2018 Chapman University Survey of American Fears (2018)
You Gov America: Many Americans believe ghosts and demons exist (2019)
Reports Of Paranormal Activity On The Rise During Coronavirus Stay-At-Home Orders (2020)
The problem is that you are presenting them as such. You can't describe anything about them, including what they are, but you are claiming they exist and that they're responsible for a supposed phenomenon that humans have experienced. Do you see how there is no actual explanatory power there?In my view spirits are not these mysterious inventions as you try to frame it. It may indeed seem that way to mainstream science but I have interests in more than mainstream science. I am a student of wisdom traditions, Theosophical, Vedic (Hindu) and Spiritualist that do indeed have an understanding of what spirits are.
Now you are introducing even more mysteries into the equation. Now you're claiming the existence of astral planes and different dimensions that are "not directly detectable by mainstream science." So how did you or anyone else detect them and how do you know they are there at all? Why can't anyone demonstrate any of this? Maybe it's snerflebergers. See how that doesn't offer an actual explanation either?The type of spirits that might be involved in EVP are beings on the astral plane of nature in dimensions not directly detectable by mainstream science. These things are detectable (not provable to the physical senses and instruments) by psychic/clairvoyant senses we all have but of which some are more advanced/gifted.
It might be beside the point here but wisdom traditions like Theosophy do get pretty deep into details and have provided the most reasonable explanation I have heard for EVP.The problem is that you are presenting them as such. You can't describe anything about them, including what they are, but you are claiming they exist and that they're responsible for a supposed phenomenon that humans have experienced. Do you see how there is no actual explanatory power there?
As I already said I have come to believe in the existence of psychic/clairvoyant senses that can tell us about things in other planes/dimensions of reality than the observable physical.So how did you or anyone else detect them and how do you know they are there at all? Why can't anyone demonstrate any of this? Maybe it's snerflebergers. See how that doesn't offer an actual explanation either?
Wow, that's a lot of stuff. I think a lot of the increase may be fueled by the recent proliferation of information on cable TV and the internet; media that never existed before very recent times.
I think increased exposure to this stuff increases belief in the fair and open-minded. Before the internet and cable TV we heard much much less about this kind of stuff.
What is that reasonable explanation? As far as I can tell, you haven't presented it.It might be beside the point here but wisdom traditions like Theosophy do get pretty deep into details and have provided the most reasonable explanation I have heard for EVP.
Any evidence aside from someone's say-so would be helpful. So would some definitions. I'm tired of these, "I have special evidence that only some people can detect but nobody can adequately demonstrate to anyone else" claims that only seem to be used when it comes to "spiritual" matters but apply to nothing else in our lives, because they're basically useless in helping us get to the truth of the matter. I mean, how did you determine that anyone has psychic/clairvoyant powers if nobody can actually demonstrate anything to anybody?As I already said I have come to believe in the existence of psychic/clairvoyant senses that can tell us about things in other planes/dimensions of reality than the observable physical.
If you require physical proof of the non-physical then that may be impossible. It might be like asking someone to capture an atom with a butterfly net. The coarse cannot grab the subtle.
If all you are interested in is mainstream science then EVP can be left a mystery or declared fraud and/or random noise pickup. You will not be able to get deeper through the current capacities of mainstream science.
I have found that the information presented by the wisdom traditions I mentioned provide a framework with explanatory powers for so-called paranormal phenomena that baffles mainstream science (like EVP).Any evidence aside from someone's say-so would be helpful. So would some definitions. I'm tired of these, "I have special evidence that only some people can detect but nobody can adequately demonstrate to anyone else" claims that only seem to be used when it comes to "spiritual" matters but apply to nothing else in our lives, because they're basically useless in helping us get to the truth of the matter. I mean, how did you determine that anyone has psychic/clairvoyant powers if nobody can actually demonstrate anything to anybody?
Honestly, this just sounds like "I want to believe because I want to believe."
I fail to see how your model explains anything. Like I said, you're just injecting a bigger mystery into something that you think is unexplainable, when in actuality there is at least one perfectly natural and well known explanation for it (e.g. pareidolia).I have found that the information presented by the wisdom traditions I mentioned provide a framework with explanatory powers for so-called paranormal phenomena that baffles mainstream science (like EVP).
I am convinced that the paranormal happens, so it is reasonable that we look for the best explanatory model.
And for me pareidolia cannot explain away this phenomena even by a longshot based on all the evidence I've heard from multiple independent sources.I fail to see how your model explains anything. Like I said, you're just injecting a bigger mystery into something that you think is unexplainable, when in actuality there is at least one perfectly natural and well known explanation for it (e.g. pareidolia).
Was watching a ghost hunter video today and here's one that was not spoiled by someone being told in the first place. Good investigators will try not to suggest to the listener what is being said. I heard 'They don't want us' just like the unspoiled client. Here's the clip. You can start at 2:00 if you want the quick version.But you don't. And that has been explained to you. You have highly biased interpretations of sound snippets. The sort of sounds that can be affected by one's beliefs going in. You were given a clear example of that. You had no answer.
Your evidence has all been "poisoned". Now there is a way to remove the poison, but you did not seem to want to do that. Another indicator that yo know that you are wrong.
And for me pareidolia cannot explain away this phenomena even by a longshot based on all the evidence I've heard from multiple independent sources.
Especially when there are Class A EVP <link>
Class A Voices are loud and clear, they can be duplicated onto other tapes. Can be heard without headphones.
Listening to the whole thing. First off they are not the ones that should be presenting anything to her. And they went against what they said. They tipped their hand.Was watching a ghost hunter video today and here's one that was not spoiled by someone being told in the first place. Good investigators will try not to suggest to the listener what is being said. I heard 'They don't want us' just like the unspoiled client. Here's the clip. You can start at 2:00 if you want the quick version.
They were just letting her determine if the voice said anything understandable without telling her in advance what it was. Sounds like a worthwhile experiment to me.Listening to the whole thing. First off they are not the ones that should be presenting anything to her. And they went against what they said. They tipped their hand.
They screwed up, they heavily implied that there was something there. You can't do that and call it evidenceThey were just letting her determine if the voice said anything understandable without telling her in advance what it was. Sounds like a worthwhile experiment to me.