Are homophobes born that way?

[SoliDeoGloria]

Yes I do. You have a good point but I am assuming that your son didn't even know what dirt was until he experienced it for the first time and touched it. Were they afraid of lightning before or after they experienced it for the first time. I am going to guess that they were not afraid of lightning until they heard their first huge crash. How do you explain a childs curious nature to touch even the most dangerous of objects.
To translate this back to topic, how many toddlers do you know of that walk around bashing gays because they are afraid of them. Did my daughter have an innate fear of gays when she was born because she could just tell that they had sex with the same gender?
Ummm, I guess I better answer that question . No, she did not.

Ok, now the one thing you have yet to explain is why my nine year old is STILL afraid of lightning despite the fact that since we live in IA as you do and facets of weather like lightning are definitely taught in school as you should know and I and my wife have countless times told him that he doesn't need to be afraid. Now we are dealing with the origins of fear here (in this particular thread homophobia) and NOT hatred even though what we are defining as fear in homophobia is actually better defined as hatred so I don't believe I am getting too far off subject here. (How Ironic; It's lightning right now as I type haha)

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

 

[Sunstone]

That is, of course, the politically correct (and even functionally correct) response, but I suspect that the truth is more nuanced. So, for example, while hate must be taught, we may be prediposed to some hatreds, rendering such hatreds easier to learn than others.

I substantially agree with this. For one thing, I've witnessed distinct personality differences in infants too young to have had their personalities formed solely by their environment, yet still expressing strong likes and dislikes.

 

[Katzpur]

I substantially agree with this. For one thing, I've witnessed distinct personality differences in infants too young to have had their personalities formed solely by their environment, yet still expressing strong likes and dislikes.

If we're talking about personality differences, I would agree. But I believe that fear of someone else's sexual preferences is something learned. If there were absolutely no social taboos on the matter, I can't see people reacting quite the way some appear to do. I would personally find the idea of having sex with another woman as entirely distasteful (to put it mildly), but I'd find a lot of other activities distasteful, too. But this doesn't mean I am personally afraid of people who engage in such activities or concerned that their choices will impact my life.

 

[Fluffy]

I believe that some people are inherently intolerant either in general or towards a specific concept. However, I have immense respect for people who are like this but refuse to let such a preconception, unjustified as it is, get in the way when they make important moral decisions about the world around them.

 

[Theodore]

What provides the motivation and thought process for the homophobic. Is it generic or, as Skinner says, a product of environment? If it is environmental, is the learning place a form of religious morality?

I would imagine a homophobe to be somebody who has had a bad experience with a gay person. For example: all the boys who were molested by gay priests. These guys would most probably hold some fairly negative feelings toward gay people. Trusting somebody like a priest only to find out that this person is using that position to satisfy his gay fantasies would tend to produce a homophobic reaction in his victims.

When parents discover their third grade daughter reading a book about the wonderful life of little Tommy who has two daddies, a certain amount of anger and resentment can be generated. The parents tend to have legitimate concerns regarding age, and content appropriateness. They also resent the social engineering being attempted by the gay community through the school system.

There is also a certain amount of resentment that is generated by the militant gay community. The tendency to shove their agenda down peoples throats results in resentment and anger by those who disagree. When legitimate debate over the issue is raised by the straight community, they are attacked and immediate labeled as intolerant bigots and homophobes. This type of reaction by the gay community does not engender empathy and cooperation, but rather quite the opposite.

Many of the people I am aware of with negative feelings toward the gay community fall into the last group. Their predominant impression of the gay community is that of the militant faction. Although these people probably aren’t going to initiate any direct action against homosexuals, they will, when given the opportunity, oppose and vote against them.

 

[Green Gaia]

For example: all the boys who were molested by gay priests. These guys would most probably hold some fairly negative feelings toward gay people. Trusting somebody like a priest only to find out that this person is using that position to satisfy his gay fantasies would tend to produce a homophobic reaction in his victims.

That is dangerously inaccurate and you know it. Anyone who molests a child is a PEDOPHILE. They are not gay, nor straight. They are PEDOPHILES. Trying to blame child molestation on gays is untruthful and disgusting and it is obvious that someone who makes such a claim is doing it only to attack the gay community and garner hatred towards us. It's something a homophobe would do.

 

[michel]

After posting my reply, I was suddenly taken back to think of my Father; a kind man, thoughtful in his dealings with others, never made enemies, and I suddenly remembered him, not long before his death.


I went to see him on my usual daily visit; he looked 'lost'. I asked him what was wrong. He told me he had seen a programme on Television about Homosexuals. he literally said to me "The world has gone mad; what was right and wrong when I was young has been messed around with."

"When I was young, a homesexual was a pervert - in the army, we felt like we should shoot them". Please No one take offense at this; he didn't know any better.

I chatted to him about the whole subject, and he could not explain to me why he feklt that way; it came across as though he had been indoctrinated; as if his whole culture represented heterosexuality. That was all; he did not hate Homosexuals; as far as he was concerned, 'they' were people he could not understand.

I know he wouldn't mind my recounting this, and I almost hear him asking me to make amends on his part, to be forgiven for not knowing better. It was because of his culture. Who was it who said 'I read it in the papers, and so it must be true' - I think that was his world. God bless you Dad, I know the fine friends I have here who are homosexual would forgive you.

 

[Theodore]

That is dangerously inaccurate and you know it. Anyone who molests a child is a PEDOPHILE. They are not gay, nor straight. They are PEDOPHILES. Trying to blame child molestation on gays is untruthful and disgusting and it is obvious that someone who makes such a claim is doing it only to attack the gay community and garner hatred towards us. It's something a homophobe would do.

I’m sorry if you misunderstood my post to be attacking the gay community. I was merely responding to the OP where the question was asked whether homophobes were made or born. My belief is that there are many factors that can effect somebody’s perception of homosexuality. I attempted to provide some examples to explain my opinion. I’m afraid that your interpretation of my motive is false and without merit.

You may also want to be careful about personal attacks. Pah could site rule 4 and rule 12 to you and possibly give you a warning. He likes to be very strict with me about these things although he may let you slide.

That being said, I beg to differ. The overwhelming majority of molestations were committed by male priests against other males. This would indicate a predilection toward homosexuality as far as I can see.

You can call it pedophilia or whatever else you want, it’s really beside the point. The act itself would still tend to create hostile feelings by the victims towards homosexuals because of the experience of being raped by another man.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

That being said, I beg to differ. The overwhelming majority of molestations were committed by male priests against other males. This would indicate a predilection toward homosexuality as far as I can see.

Yet we also know that you see through a peculiarly distorted lense. In fact, these statistics on molestation can quite easily be explained by the qualitatively greater accessibility of mail targets.

 

[Quiddity]

The act itself would still tend to create hostile feelings by the victims towards homosexuals because of the experience of being raped by another man.

That is a good point. Especially since most of the victims were boys. I'm only speaking of the RC molestations here.

~Victor

 

[Green Gaia]

That being said, I beg to differ. The overwhelming majority of molestations were committed by male priests against other males. This would indicate a predilection toward homosexuality as far as I can see.

Of course you would, but you'd be wrong. Molestation involves and ADULT and a CHILD, that has nothing to do with homosexuatity or heterosexuality, for that matter. Unless you're going to make the claim that girls who are molested by men grow up to be heterophobes, you're claim holds no merit and does nothing but further lies about the gay community.

 

[Quiddity]

Of course you would, but you'd be wrong. Molestation involves and ADULT and a CHILD, that has nothing to do with homosexuatity or heterosexuality, for that matter. Unless you're going to make the claim that girls who are molested men grow up to be heterophobes, you're claim holds no merit and does nothing but further lies about the gay community.

Maize, I think you are focusing on this from a more vast perspective. Theodore seems to be looking at it from the standpoint of the priesthood alone.

~Victor

 

[Green Gaia]

Maize, I think you are focusing on this from a more vast perspective. Theodore seems to be looking at it from the standpoint of the priesthood alone.

~Victor

His assumptions linking homosexuality to child molestation are still incorrect. If he's going attempt that claim, he must do the same for the pedophiles who abuse opposite sex children and he must blame it on a predilection toward heterosexuality.


But we are getting off topic.

 

[Fluffy]

That is dangerously inaccurate and you know it. Anyone who molests a child is a PEDOPHILE. They are not gay, nor straight. They are PEDOPHILES. Trying to blame child molestation on gays is untruthful and disgusting and it is obvious that someone who makes such a claim is doing it only to attack the gay community and garner hatred towards us. It's something a homophobe would do.

I don't believe this to be accurate. Only a small percentage of child molesters are pedophiles. Most of them are situational molesters ie they raped the child because they are easier to dominate, keep quiet etc. and has nothing to do with their sexuality.

I would imagine a homophobe to be somebody who has had a bad experience with a gay person. For example: all the boys who were molested by gay priests. These guys would most probably hold some fairly negative feelings toward gay people. Trusting somebody like a priest only to find out that this person is using that position to satisfy his gay fantasies would tend to produce a homophobic reaction in his victims.

This is a classic example of a situational molester. Their sexuality could be anything and is irrelevant.

If the child is prepubescent then the fact that they are male is irrelevant to the molesters sexuality on the most part as those with a basic understanding of pedophilia will know. If the child is postpubescent then there is substantially more chance that the molester is gay but it is still more likely that he is simply a situational molester.

 

[Green Gaia]

I don't believe this to be accurate. Only a small percentage of child molesters are pedophiles. Most of them are situational molesters ie they raped the child because they are easier to dominate, keep quiet etc. and has nothing to do with their sexuality.

Either way you define it, molestation or pedophilia, to blame either on homosexuality is not accurate. That was my point.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Phobia: A persistent illogical fear.

This is at the crux of this whole thread. It was once told to me that if 3 people say something then it must be true! By the overwhelming use of this word it has become a standard label of anyone who is not sympathetic to, or agrees with the whole gay agenda. This word is being misused and abused as a rationalization that if anyone disagrees with a gay then they are homophobic. Puhleez. What is illogical about not accepting the statement that Gays are born that way? They still haven't proven it. Homophobia is just a self-serving label to throw at someone who disagrees with a Gay. That doesnt give the term any validity at all.

 

[Pah]

For example: all the boys who were molested by gay priests. These guys would most probably hold some fairly negative feelings toward gay people.

That is a good point. Especially since most of the victims were boys. I'm only speaking of the RC molestations here.

~Victor

It would be a "good point" if it were more that a bald assertion. And I'll make one too!! Peadophilic molestations did more to cause ill feelings to priests and a distrust of those in authority.

Now let's have a race - who can first come up with supporting evidence for each assertion?

 

[Pah]

I guess I win.

A victim speaks:

MANUEL VEGA>> IT'S A CRIME OF ULTIMATE BETRAYAL BECAUSE YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT GOD, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN AUTHORITY FIGURE,
ESPECIALLY IN MY CULTURE AS AN HISPANIC. I MEAN, THE REVERENCE
AND RESPECT THAT'S GIVEN TO THE CHURCH. IT'S INCREDIBLE. IT'S AN
ABSOLUTE POWER. WHEN ALL THAT GETS TURNED AROUND AND YOU WAKE UP
ONE MORNING AND YOU REALIZE, OH, I'M A VICTIM, THIS WAS ALL A
BIG BETRAYAL, IT REALLY HURTS.

http://www.kcet.org/lifeandtimes/archives/200307/20030717.php

http://www.americamagazine.org/gettext.cfm?articleTypeID=1&textID=1730&issueID=369 also has information, from a Catholic source, that it it not considerd a homosexual act contrary to the statements by Joaquin Navarro-Valls, the Vatican’s official spokesman. Other Google sources recounted the number of incidents involving girls.

The whole concept of child molestation as a homesexual act is ridiculous.

Now can we return to the topic?

 

[michel]

Thank you Pah, for setting the record straight.

 

[Quiddity]

The whole concept of child molestation as a homesexual act is ridiculous.

Is that what you thought I was doing? I think Jayhawk did a wonderful job of setting me straight on this. But thank you for reminding me.

~Victor