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Are humans only the larval stage?
- Thread starter Eddi
- Start date
no
I think we are nearly to our end point (in terms of evolution) but not there. This could go well or badly. The reason I think we are nearly to our end point is that our bodies are complex and we have a large population.
A bacteria is one cell, so changes are easier. Bacteria rapidly change without dying. They are tough. People are fragile and need all of our parts. We also are social, so sometimes we need society more than we need physical enhancements. I might say we are tough as a social group so have fewer opportunities to improve through genetic changes. The survival advantage of ape-like strength for example is not as great as if we are non-social like bears.
There are evolutionary pressures but also conservative pressures. Larger populations change less quickly. That's another conservative force.
In evolution of humans we might trade one advantage for another, instead of packing every advantage into a species: to keep cool we must give up the advantage of fur. Its analogous to traffic on a highway. Its great to have more traffic, but it does clog and slow down. I think its like that when packing advantages into a species. We trade one advantage for another. Therefore if you would see more human evolution then what advantage must we lose in order to obtain it?
Humans are not a species of animal that undergoes metamorphosis - humans have no larval stage. Because we're boring like that.
Secret Chief
Veteran Member
no
Madsaac
Active Member
It's a metaphor, isn't it?
Yes it was!
It can be, and still... no. Humans are a fully functional and realized species, right now. Biologically, they haven't undergone any dramatic changes since their evolution as a species. Things around them have - their lifeways have - but not the organism itself. Which is a problem, honestly. I'm thinking about misuse of technology in particular, which is so ubiquitous and abundant that "metamorphosis" ("infection" more like) is literally causing a sixth mass extinction.
No, I don't think humankind is a larval stage in any sense of the word.
It is instead an accident.
It is instead an accident.
But evolution is still happening, right?
I mean if we don't get wiped out by some cataclysm then in a million year's time we may have evolved into several new forms?
Especially if people start doing genetic engineering
Of course biological evolution is still happening - if we're following metamorphosis as a metaphor, a metamorphosis is an especially rapid and dramatic change. The biological organism undergoes such an extreme shift in form that unless you were observing all the stages you probably wouldn't even connect the larval form with the adult form of the organism. This will not happen in humans - even if genetic engineering is used (which it won't, but let's pretend it will) the result would be a new species that could not interbreed with humans. It wouldn't be a "metamorphosis" it would be "transposition."
Sorry, I'm a biologist - I'm gonna nitpick. I could also nitpick about how this wouldn't at all be biological evolution anymore, but... let's... not.
Esteban X
Active Member
You could say the same thing about ants.......or bees or termites. LOL
Tadpoles can't post on RF.
You are not wrong. Humans are much more fragile physically than those are however, and socially we are more inflexible than its popular to think. Its not merely the complexity but the limitations of our capacity. We have a capacity that we are already mostly using. Strings in a box can only get so many knots when you shake it. If the box were bigger then you could get more knots, but the box does have a size. Similarly there is an absolute zero such that you cannot get infinite entropy. There is a floor beyond which no further order can be attained.
Irreligious people tend not to reproduce as much as evidenced in recent History, globally, across cultures. Consider how that tiny change (less religion) has resulted in less reproduction globally. I cannot say for sure, but the capacity (in all ways) of humanity society may be related: Put something in, and you cannot predict what comes out. There are other explanations, but complexity and capacity may be the best. Some would say feminism is the reason, and that is a plausible explanation, too. Whatever it is, it is something recent that has globally decimated reproduction; and its not starvation or illness. Maybe there is a limit to how much complexity human society can contain, without adding more potential, more energy or something. Just like a brain.
Another analogy is our human brain architecture. It has a limited amount of chemical energy to spend, so a human being is forced to specialize. The brain is set up to preserve energy and to preserve space, since it has limited reserves of both, and it is difficult therefore to learn new things and to focus for very long. The more you know, the less you can learn. The more skills you have, the more dedicated your body is to those skills. The learning is entropic, creating order in the brain; and this has a cost akin to taking up storage space. The knowing of things is like the cutting of canyons by water.
If there were unlimited capacity then it would be different. That's kind of why I'm thinking along these lines. I'm seeing these limitations and trade-offs. You can't be specialize to both a sprinter and a long distance runner. You have to be one person.
Madsaac
Active Member
Of course biological evolution is still happening - if we're following metamorphosis as a metaphor, a metamorphosis is an especially rapid and dramatic change. The biological organism undergoes such an extreme shift in form that unless you were observing all the stages you probably wouldn't even connect the larval form with the adult form of the organism. This will not happen in humans - even if genetic engineering is used (which it won't, but let's pretend it will) the result would be a new species that could not interbreed with humans. It wouldn't be a "metamorphosis" it would be "transposition."
Sorry, I'm a biologist - I'm gonna nitpick. I could also nitpick about how this wouldn't at all be biological evolution anymore, but... let's... not.
Because of our intelligence, is it still biological evolution if humans can develop certain types of technology that alters our biological makeup, for example some type of human brain computer or new drugs that can make us smarter.
Could we evolve into some sort of super human or of course the opposite
In other words could our biological evolution be endless with the use of technology.
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I wouldn't use biological evolution to describe that process. It's no longer just biological at that point - it is extremely artificial and ignoring the rules that drive and balance proper biological evolution. That can and will create all sorts of issues, but humans, thinking they are oh so smart will ignore the warning signs as usual and screw themselves and others along the way.
Madsaac
Active Member
That's a little pessimistic, what about all the wonderful things humans have achieved because of technology. And all the amazing positive futuristic technologies that could make the world and humanity a better place.
I'm not sure but I imagine thousands of years a go, pagans where using all sorts of technologies to make the world a better place.
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