Are Killers going to Hell?

[Stevicus]

True... except the people who believe in such things have been told that killing is a sin. Whether it's something that is endangering salvation is the more unclear question.

Yes, although even among people who believe, there are sharp differences of opinion on the subject of killing and what kind of eternal punishment it might entail. But many also believe that God forgives people of their sins, if they confess and ask for forgiveness.

This is where the whole idea always got a bit murky for me, considering all the things that are considered "sins" (besides murder). A mass murderer could ask for forgiveness at the last minute and go to Heaven, while an unrepentant coveter of thy neighbor's wife would be burning in Hell.

One of the biggest problems atheists and those of lapsed faith have with religion is not understanding what God's plan for us is. It's a fair point- how do you know how straight a path you must walk, if no one explains to you how not to stray and what the goal is?

I don't really think there is any "plan." For all anyone knows, "God" could be some advanced alien scientist who tried to do an experiment which failed. We could be nothing more than a bizarre side effect. I don't think religion knows any more about the "Great Unknown" than anyone else does, but what they also teach is that "we" as humans are special. It's often said that "God loves us" and "God has a plan for each and every one of us." Religion has more to do with "us" than it has much to do with "God," which is an indefinable concept anyway.

But the whole emphasis on "sin" and forgiveness makes it seem like God really cares that much and that "we" are the center of His universe. Does anyone really care if an insect kills another insect? So why would God care if one animal kills another animal? Why would He care about anything we do? He has to run the entire universe, so why would people think He'd be concerned about little old us?

 

[Karuna]

Is killing someone wrong when God is the one who tells you to do it?

God do not tell anybody to kill anyone. Every action we take in this life is our own and we are responsible for the result.

 

[Akivah]

Is it a sin to kill another in all situations, and rob another's family of that person's life, when it involves descending into the role of a killer?

You have two major errors in your OP.
1) The Hebrew bible does not have any commandment against killing. The commandment is against murder.
2) There is no such place as Hell.

Killing in warfare and judiciary killing is sanctioned in the Hebrew bible. Killing of animals and plants for food is also allowed.

 

[Grumpuss]

Hahaha... "RACIST?" Are you being serious? What in the world? What "race" are you? Do I even care? Let's try this again...

REGARDLESS OTHERS' PERSONAL PHILOSOPHIES, BY ASKING PEOPLE TO MAKE JUDGMENT ABOUT WHAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAPPEN TO ANYONE IN THE AFTERLIFE, YOU ARE ASKING PEOPLE TO "SIN" ACCORDING TO STATEMENTS YOU HAVE MADE FROM YOUR PERSONAL PHILOSOPHY.

Does your philosophy include spreading "sin" throughout the people of the world by asking questions that put them in the position to "sin"? Regardless what their philosophies are, or how much "more comfortable" you feel they might be in discussing the fate of killers in the afterlife - YOU ARE ASKING THEM TO "SIN" ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN BELIEFS AND ARE THEREFORE ASKING FOR MORE "SIN" TO BE PRESENT IN THE WORLD.

It really is as simple as this. I don't need to "lock" you into anything. You did so yourself quite handily.

I think you need to learn how to read. My own beliefs are my own beliefs. I am curious about the beliefs of others.

There are other beliefs, you know- whether you like it or not.

 

[Grumpuss]

The circumstances dictate the morality or immorality of the action. I have no evidence of any gods existing, therefor the subject of sin is irrelevant to me, only morality.

You still have a moral code, though, correct? While what are improper actions, criminal deeds, etc., that you wouldn't consider are to religious people, "sins". Our lists may not align exactly, but there is commonality.

however, if you are referencing the Christian god, then that god is in my view a very poor example of morality, as I do not view rape, incest, genocide, or slavery as moral under any conditions.

Perhaps it is not the Christian God who is imperfect, but those that follow Him? The number of horrors committed in the name of God or a religion can fill several volumes of history books. And they do.

I don't understand the non-sequitur. Genocide is a heinous crime against humanity and the evil committed by the murderers will have utterly serious consequences after death. The disease of schizophrenia has nothing to do with mass murder.

You don't think the perpetrators of numerous genocides didn't claim to get their marching orders from God? Even the United States keeps chaplains and other religious members in its military to assure the forces that "God is on OUR side"...

If you believe in God, then surely you care at least somewhat for your immortal soul. I don't know if religious people who kill rationalize this to themselves, or if they are resigned to commit sin and repent later.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I think you need to learn how to read. My own beliefs are my own beliefs. I am curious about the beliefs of others.

There are other beliefs, you know- whether you like it or not.

Oh, I know there are other beliefs.

In YOUR beliefs, you feel that making judgments about the conditions of someone's afterlife is speaking on behalf of God and is a sin.

In YOUR beliefs, do you also feel that all people, regardless of faith, creed, color, stature, etc. ARE BOUND TO THE SAME RULES THAT YOUR GOD SET FORTH? Do you believe this? If you do, then ENCOURAGING SIN is probably not a good idea, is it? Regardless who you are encouraging?

Or is it acceptable, in your philosophy, to encourage the Godless to sin? Or do you mean to say that, as long as someone's beliefs are contrary to your own, that they don't need to worry about abiding by your God's rules, that therefore God will not judge them for the answers they give to questions you may ask them that lead them into this "sin?"

 

[David1967]

That's a pretty thin line though, isn't it?

If there's a voice in someone's head that tells them to do something that we might consider to be "good", is that equally as insane? Does the level of insanity vary depending on what the voice suggests?

Voices in the head per this thread are not normal, but if the voices instruct said person to do good, then at least we can breath a sigh of relief.

 

[Grumpuss]

Oh, I know there are other beliefs.

In YOUR beliefs, you feel that making judgments about the conditions of someone's afterlife is speaking on behalf of God and is a sin.

In YOUR beliefs, do you also feel that all people, regardless of faith, creed, color, stature, etc. ARE BOUND TO THE SAME RULES THAT YOUR GOD SET FORTH? Do you believe this? If you do, then ENCOURAGING SIN is probably not a good idea, is it? Regardless who you are encouraging?

Or is it acceptable, in your philosophy, to encourage the Godless to sin? Or do you mean to say that, as long as someone's beliefs are contrary to your own, that they don't need to worry about abiding by your God's rules, that therefore God will not judge them for the answers they give to questions you may ask them that lead them into this "sin?"

They've either sinned or they haven't. I'm just asking a question.

Checkmate.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

They've either sinned or they haven't. I'm just asking a question.

... and encouraging them to sin by answering, because it is pretty obvious you expected responses. Or maybe you'll pull the old religious "plot twist", coming up with an excuse by suddenly claiming this entire thread was a "test," just so you can go on kidding yourself a little longer.

 

[Milton Platt]

You still have a moral code, though, correct? While what are improper actions, criminal deeds, etc., that you wouldn't consider are to religious people, "sins". Our lists may not align exactly, but there is commonality.


Perhaps it is not the Christian God who is imperfect, but those that follow Him? The number of horrors committed in the name of God or a religion can fill several volumes of history books. And they do.

You don't think the perpetrators of numerous genocides didn't claim to get their marching orders from God? Even the United States keeps chaplains and other religious members in its military to assure the forces that "God is on OUR side"...

If you believe in God, then surely you care at least somewhat for your immortal soul. I don't know if religious people who kill rationalize this to themselves, or if they are resigned to commit sin and repent later.

Yes, i was merely pointing out that a 'sin" is generally something perpetrated against a supposed deity, as opposed to something simply immoral. Of course I am guided by the moral codes agreed upon by the society within which I live.

It is the religious followers of a deity who perpetrate the crimes, yes.....but in the Bible, for instance, they are supposedly perpetrated at the command of the deity. The Biblical god specifically endorses these things and commands them to be done.

 

[Grumpuss]

... and encouraging them to sin by answering, because it is pretty obvious you expected responses. Or maybe you'll pull the old religious "plot twist", coming up with an excuse by suddenly claiming this entire thread was a "test," just so you can go on kidding yourself a little longer.

Yawn. Why are you so full of hate? Did a truck full of bibles run over your foot, or a nun give your dog a dirty look or something?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Yawn. Why are you so full of hate? Did a truck full of bibles run over your foot, or a nun give your dog a dirty look or something?

Hate is definitely not the right word for it. I would say I have a distinct distaste for hypocrisy - most especially when found in the religious. And this is not due to the combined weight of a truck-load of bibles, nor a nun having done anything in particular. No, this is because I consider it all fantasy, and the religions that go about the business of utilizing this fantasy to actively condemn everyone else and attempt to prescribe the ways in which they should live their lives, in many cases offering that the only alternative is eternal punishment no matter how you behave in your time on Earth... well... I find there's a lot to find distasteful about that. Quite a lot.

 

[jonathan180iq]

God do not tell anybody to kill anyone. Every action we take in this life is our own and we are responsible for the result.

That's not what the Old Testament claims...

 

[Baroodi]

(on that ;We imposed on the offspring of Israel that, if any one slew a person for reasons other than murder or spreading of mischief in earth , it would be asif he slew the whole people. And whoever saved a life, it would be asif he saved the life of the whole people). Noble Quran. 5;33

(And whoever kill a believer intentionally, his reward would be Hell, to abide therein eternally) Noble Quran 4:94

 

[Baroodi]

Prophet of Islam Mohammed(peace be uppon him) admonished against suicide when fe said: Whoever kill himself with a a piece of metal, his metal would be in his hand stabbing himself repeatedly while he is in hell aboding eternally there. And whoever kill himself with a poison, his poison would be in his hand drinking it while he is in hell aboding eternally there. and whoever kill himself by falling from high, he would be ever falling into Hell aboding there eternally. Book of Muslim (authenticated narration)

 

[Grumpuss]

You have two major errors in your OP.
1) The Hebrew bible does not have any commandment against killing. The commandment is against murder.
2) There is no such place as Hell.

1) It wasn't exclusively about the Hebrew Bible. If it was, this thread would likely be in the Judaism or Christianity DIR. Instead, it's a general question about all religions, as nearly all of them frown upon killing. Additionally, that's a commandment. There are many other places where killing is labeled as wrong:
Leviticus 24:17 “Whoever takes a human life shall surely be put to death.”
Romans 12:19 “Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
Matthew 26:52 “Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.”

2) Perhaps that is what YOU believe. But you can probably acknowledge that other people do indeed believe in a Hell?

Killing in warfare and judiciary killing is sanctioned in the Hebrew bible. Killing of animals and plants for food is also allowed.

See above. This was specifically about killing another human,

 

[Christ's Prophet]

An unfortunate part of organized society is that a few of its members will have their lives ended unnaturally by others. Not every killing is the same as another, and secular society provides for circumstances where it is more acceptable to kill another, or at least, won't punish as severely. Those might include war, to defend oneself from an attacker or to avenge an injustice. As there are several thousand killings occurring each day, it is entirely possible, even likely that many of the people perpetrating them maintain a personal belief in God. They may even be devout members of an established religion, which may or may not provide internal guidance on how to treat someone who takes a life.

How one conducts himself/herself in life would therefore follow some kind of path to salvation, whether it be an Abrahamic God, Hindu pantheon, Buddhist spirit, etc. It would follow for those believers who are not living gods, that the rules were designed by others and we can not rewrite them to suit our own subject experience of judgment of ourselves. Being peaceful and kind and never taking a life, as we are told the god(s) of our faith want can and will clash against what many consider to be being a good acolyte. While we hope and expect we have kind and merciless deities to at least partially absolve us when mental derangement is a mitigating factor, what is the effect upon our immortal souls and/or spiritual afterlife when we consciously or recklessly kill?

Maybe it's debatable if David Haines "had it coming", but how about Jihadi John?

Please know that what one religion may consider foul and sin-worthy can be quite different than what another may consider tolerable. I am not looking for any rants explaining why one religion's worldview is superior to all others, or how defensible you consider it to kill someone, based on the killed's thoughts, actions or relative worthiness. It's always complicated. Myself, I believe this is a question left up to God to judge who shall be rewarded with bliss and who is damned. To pass judgment on others for what happens in the afterlife, is to speak for God, and is a sin. But we can of course keep asking questions and try to live well, free from chaos.

Is it a sin to kill another in all situations, and rob another's family of that person's life, when it involves descending into the role of a killer? And to what extent are the machinations of demons (if you believe in their influence) to be blamed or mitigated against?

From my observations of what you have said, my advice is that we have to let God be God, and allow Him to draw up the standards of what is right and what is wrong. Without God, we are just poking around in the dark. If we, as human beings, try to make all the rules, of which there are thousands and thousands of laws, which we will have to keep changing because we can’t seem to just get it right, whereas God has got it right the first time and there is no need to change anything.

You were talking about the subject of killing one another. We live in a fallen world where everything is born to die. God says that we should not kill (murder), (Exodus 20). An example from the Bible will serve. King David went out to war many times to defend the nation against aggressors. He was not condemned by God for having to do that. However when he had Uriah the Hittite murdered in order to claim Bathsheba to be his wife, he was punished by God because it was murder (2 Samuel 11, 12). In a similar way Cain killed Abel because he was jealous of his gift to God (Genesis 4). He was punished by God for his sin because it was murder.

In the title, you ask, ‘Do killers go to Hell?’ People go to Hell because they are unrepentant sinners. People don’t want God, and they don’t want any God running their lives. They will forever get their wish in Hell. God is a pure and holy God and hates sin. That is why we don’t have to take lambs up to the temple anymore and make a sacrifice of them for sin. Christ is the perfect Lamb of God who offered up Himself as a sacrifice for all sin, once and forever. We can appropriate what Jesus has done, if we want it. His death on the cross satisfies the demands of a holy God regarding sin. Certainty for eternity.

 

[Grumpuss]

From my observations of what you have said, my advice is that we have to let God be God, and allow Him to draw up the standards of what is right and what is wrong. Without God, we are just poking around in the dark. If we, as human beings, try to make all the rules, of which there are thousands and thousands of laws, which we will have to keep changing because we can’t seem to just get it right, whereas God has got it right the first time and there is no need to change anything.

Ultimately, that's all we can do. But nevertheless, we do believe in God's judgment and do kill one another.

You were talking about the subject of killing one another. We live in a fallen world where everything is born to die. God says that we should not kill (murder), (Exodus 20). An example from the Bible will serve. King David went out to war many times to defend the nation against aggressors. He was not condemned by God for having to do that. However when he had Uriah the Hittite murdered in order to claim Bathsheba to be his wife, he was punished by God because it was murder (2 Samuel 11, 12). In a similar way Cain killed Abel because he was jealous of his gift to God (Genesis 4). He was punished by God for his sin because it was murder.

Your examples seem plausible, until you remember that these people had direct communication with God. He spoke to them and commanded them to do a thing (or not do a thing). That's very different than ignoring the Bible, Qu'ran, Sutras, Shruti, etc., and killing, not caring about the effect upon salvation.

In the title, you ask, ‘Do killers go to Hell?’ People go to Hell because they are unrepentant sinners. People don’t want God, and they don’t want any God running their lives. They will forever get their wish in Hell. God is a pure and holy God and hates sin. That is why we don’t have to take lambs up to the temple anymore and make a sacrifice of them for sin. Christ is the perfect Lamb of God who offered up Himself as a sacrifice for all sin, once and forever. We can appropriate what Jesus has done, if we want it. His death on the cross satisfies the demands of a holy God regarding sin. Certainty for eternity.

The expression is that only God knows what is in your heart. Someone that sins repeatedly, but asks for forgiveness repeatedly, cannot truely be repentant, can he?

 

[Muffled]

Actually, my name is a Kurt Vonnegut reference.

He was a writer.

I know I have read one of his books. Which book does that come from?

 

[Hawkins]

That depends. If someone like Hitler send an army to rape and kill your fellow country folks and your family members. Will you fight back to kill them in order not to be killed?

In a sense, you are already a killer if you know a killing is going on but without stopping it.

Similarly, if a police killed a murderer at the scene where the murderer is killing a kid, will you condemn the police because he killed a human by saving a child?