Are Monotheistic Religions Truely Monotheistic?

[ManTimeForgot]

Well then.
I can see the merit in point 1.
Point 2, eh I think trays arguing over a concept of God which basically means that only one God can be a God. That to me seems like a denial to keep the "There is only one God" thing from the bible. But its not my beliefs so I'm not going to bash it. Still just curious to see other responses.
Point 3 is very common unfortunately. I run into it often.

Also as a note, my Christian friend has never accused me of devil worship. I live in the bible belt, so there's no shortage of those that do, but my friend has actually attended a Pagan circle, and actually observed me during ritual and trance. He actually was my assistant and drummed for me. And I have attended church of various denominations.
So there is a level of understanding and respect that most don't seem to extend to others as they should.

Most Christians are painfully ignorant of the context that the Bible arose within and the assumptions that are a part of the ideas they claim to espouse.

"Thou Shalt have no other gods before me" They recognized the existence of other gods you just couldn't allow them to be more important. The term "Elohim" roughly translates to "only god that matters." This is tacit recognition that other deities exist; it is only that they should not be important to you.

"Thou Shalt not take the Lord's name in vain." This does NOT mean you should not swear. "Swear words" like saying any of the four letter words we commonly recognize as vulgar has nothing to do with this commandment. It has everything to do with the Hubris of commanding "God" to do something. When you say: "God Damn it!" you are commanding "God" to do something for you. "God" is not supposed to be your slave, servant, or inferior in anyway and as such you are not to command "God" to do anything.

"Thou Shalt not suffer a witch to live." You actually have to believe in magic (like eye of newt and toe of dog) if you are to abide by the commandment as it was originally intended. I don't know about you all, but I am fairly sure that randomly killing off Wiccan people is not intended by this. And if someone does believe in "true" witchcraft, then they need to bring the evidence forward that this is real. Because I think it would be really cool to be able to fly or teleport or learn the future or whatever else magic is supposed to be able to accomplish.

MTF

 

[ChristineES]

Are Christians "painfully ignorant" because they understand things differently than you do?

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

Satan is not is not eternal, so he cannot be God.

 

[Me Myself]

Satan is not is not eternal, so he cannot be God.

a lot of gods are not eternal.

Let me rephrase that.

Most gods are not eternal.

 

[ManTimeForgot]

Are Christians "painfully ignorant" because they understand things differently than you do?

What exactly does my understanding have to do with the understanding of people who lived thousands of years ago?


As a self professed Christian do you honestly believe that it is a sin against God in need of asking for forgiveness to not kill a Wiccan person on sight? Wiccans self-identify as witches after all, and the Bible does say "Suffer not a witch to live."

MTF

 

[ChristineES]

a lot of gods are not eternal.

Let me rephrase that.

Most gods are not eternal.

Some of us believe that God is eternal and that anything that is not is not God. It is a difference of opinion.

 

[Me Myself]

Some of us believe that God is eternal and that anything that is not is not God. It is a difference of opinion.

semantic actually, but oh well

 

[ManTimeForgot]

a lot of gods are not eternal.

Let me rephrase that.

Most gods are not eternal.

People are using terms differently here.

"God" and "gods" are not the same thing. "God" is a supernatural being which exceeds reality; is eternal, uncreated, transcendent absolute. The other term "gods" refers to things which are "merely" cosmically powerful.

MTF

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

a lot of gods are not eternal.

Let me rephrase that.

Most gods are not eternal.

Then they are not God. A true god is eternal.

 

[ChristineES]

What exactly does my understanding have to do with the understanding of people who lived thousands of years ago?


As a self professed Christian do you honestly believe that it is a sin against God in need of asking for forgiveness to not kill a Wiccan person on sight? Wiccans self-identify as witches after all, and the Bible does say "Suffer not a witch to live."

MTF

I can't understand what you are saying. Maybe I am dense or something. I follow Jesus' commands- loving God, my neighbor, my siblings in Jesus, my enemies, not judging, showing mercy, etc. I don't what this has to do with some out of context verse in the OT. To me, the Old Testament is the history of individuals who followed God and the history of God's people. It also contains some non-literal stories, some poems of praise, and words of prophets. I worship God, I don't worship the Bible.

 

[ChristineES]

semantic actually, but oh well

I suppose that is what I get for trying to make peace.

 

[darkstar]

I suppose that is what I get for trying to make peace.

Meh, one should always try to make peace when able.

To make things clear on my end, I believe in your God. I do NOT believe in your concepts of your God. And we're both free to our beliefs, as I know you don't believe in my Gods.

However that doesn't mean people can't have civilized conversation about such concepts. I thank you for having the courage to talk with someone who was obviously challenging your views and beliefs.
It's not easy having your views challenged, or being flat out told that you're wrong. It's also not right of anyone to say, because EVERYONE has a reason for their beliefs and it is very real for them. Sometimes they are based on false facts, and even I am not innocent in that. But that is why one must continue to learn.

I hope to see more ideas from others on this topic. And I hope that if nothing else it has made the people who responded think about things about their own views and the views of others.

Still curious, but pleasantly surprised that this thread has yet to fully blow up in a game of finger pointing and off topic attacks at people.

 

[Flankerl]

Which might be why I specified, or highly implied, Christianity and Islam due to the fact I was curious about this within THEIR religious views. And I was not raised a Christian btw.

Also, considering that my mother is Jewish by heritage, though Christian by religion, I have always learned what I could of Judaism. Which might be why I didn't mention it, seeing as it wasn't applicable. Most questions about Judaism, and Jewish mysticism, are answered by my friend and teacher.

Assumptions are dangerous ^_^

Well then you should have probably chosen another title for the thread.

 

[ChristineES]

Meh, one should always try to make peace when able.

To make things clear on my end, I believe in your God. I do NOT believe in your concepts of your God. And we're both free to our beliefs, as I know you don't believe in my Gods.

However that doesn't mean people can't have civilized conversation about such concepts. I thank you for having the courage to talk with someone who was obviously challenging your views and beliefs.
It's not easy having your views challenged, or being flat out told that you're wrong. It's also not right of anyone to say, because EVERYONE has a reason for their beliefs and it is very real for them. Sometimes they are based on false facts, and even I am not innocent in that. But that is why one must continue to learn.

I hope to see more ideas from others on this topic. And I hope that if nothing else it has made the people who responded think about things about their own views and the views of others.

Still curious, but pleasantly surprised that this thread has yet to fully blow up in a game of finger pointing and off topic attacks at people.

It's never easy to have your beliefs challenged, but I have learned to accept that others have other views. But, you could be right, there could be other gods. I see them as spirits or angels, maybe, but I am not going to say straight up you are wrong. That would go nowhere and would go a long way in making people very angry.

 

[no-body]

Words can mean many things to different people.

To me true monotheism means there is nothing but God.

 

[darkstar]

Well then you should have probably chosen another title for the thread.

Perhaps. Though if you read it, it pretty well implied those two religions. Still, you made a bad assumption. Don't put that one on me.

Either way, my position has been explained to you. Now you know. If you have anything interesting to add to this topic you're welcome to it.

 

[ManTimeForgot]

I can't understand what you are saying. Maybe I am dense or something. I follow Jesus' commands- loving God, my neighbor, my siblings in Jesus, my enemies, not judging, showing mercy, etc. I don't what this has to do with some out of context verse in the OT. To me, the Old Testament is the history of individuals who followed God and the history of God's people. It also contains some non-literal stories, some poems of praise, and words of prophets. I worship God, I don't worship the Bible.

As I understand it, the Bible is something which is taken as a whole and it is viewed as "God's truth." Now if I am mistaken in this (and I really hope I am not because that would mean that over a decade of my life was spent with a seriously deluded understanding of what it meant to be Christian), then I am willing to back off.

But if that is the case, then the commandments of the Bible are supposed to be acted upon. Jesus might well have made sure people are forgiven their sins, but that doesn't mean that you are supposed to go out sinning all the time, right? You are still not supposed to murder and you are still supposed to honor your father and mother, yes?


Well, there are other commandments in the Bible (some 600 of them if memory serves), and not all of which are understood in the context of how they were understood thousands of years ago. Taking the Lord's name in vain never had anything to do with say F You. The fact that people seem to think it does is a gross mischaracterization of "The Law."

And if you are still supposed to abide by "The Law" (Even if you are able to seek forgiveness for any transgression) this means that suffering a witch to live is a sin. Do you think that not killing Wiccans is a sin against "God?" I certainly hope not.

MTF

 

[ChristineES]

As I understand it, the Bible is something which is taken as a whole and it is viewed as "God's truth." Now if I am mistaken in this (and I really hope I am not because that would mean that over a decade of my life was spent with a seriously deluded understanding of what it meant to be Christian), then I am willing to back off.

But if that is the case, then the commandments of the Bible are supposed to be acted upon. Jesus might well have made sure people are forgiven their sins, but that doesn't mean that you are supposed to go out sinning all the time, right? You are still not supposed to murder and you are still supposed to honor your father and mother, yes?


Well, there are other commandments in the Bible (some 600 of them if memory serves), and not all of which are understood in the context of how they were understood thousands of years ago. Taking the Lord's name in vain never had anything to do with say F You. The fact that people seem to think it does is a gross mischaracterization of "The Law."

And if you are still supposed to abide by "The Law" (Even if you are able to seek forgiveness for any transgression) this means that suffering a witch to live is a sin. Do you think that not killing Wiccans is a sin against "God?" I certainly hope not.

MTF

Jesus said to "love your siblings (I am being somewhat PC in that, Jesus said "brother") in Christ", and to "love your neighbor", and even said to "love your enemies". I take that to mean that I love everyone. You, for example, would be my neighbor. I think The Law in the OT is grossly misunderstood. I believe we should follow the Ten Commandments- but for the rest of it, I don't believe we are bound by it. After all, times do change over time. You don't see people having sacrifices in their front yard and such- for example.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Fortunately, all this question is far easier than you apparently think!

There is only one God, All-loving and without equal or rival, known by many names in the various languages and cultures.

There is thus no "devil" out there competing with God or trying to "get us."

And "satan" simply refers to our own lower (animal) nature when we give it control instead of our higher (spiritual) nature.

Simple as that.

Bruce

 

[Zen Sensei]

I had an interesting debate with a Christian friend of mine, and I thought I'd bring the fun here.

The concept of Satan. I've been accused of worshiping Satan on a regular basis because I'm pagan. I often answer that Satan is one of their Gods, not mine. This is denied of course.

So my point is this. When something good happens it's God/Allah. When something bad happens it's Satan. Satan tests people, spreads pain and suffering, and is apparently very powerful since he seems to be able to manipulate various forms of creation to tempt us and turn us from God.
Sounds like a Deity to me.

So my question is this, is Satan another Deity, or a convenient scapegoat? It doesn't matter if God lets him do something, or put him in place either. The point is that he exhibits the power and influence that one would attribute to a God.

Also note that one can acknowledge a Deity without worshiping them. I believe the God of Abraham exists as much as my own, but don't worship him.

I'm just curious, discuss?

I had an interesting debate with a Christian friend of mine, and I thought I'd bring the fun here.

The concept of Satan. I've been accused of worshiping Satan on a regular basis because I'm pagan. I often answer that Satan is one of their Gods, not mine. This is denied of course.

So my point is this. When something good happens it's God/Allah. When something bad happens it's Satan. Satan tests people, spreads pain and suffering, and is apparently very powerful since he seems to be able to manipulate various forms of creation to tempt us and turn us from God.
Sounds like a Deity to me.

So my question is this, is Satan another Deity, or a convenient scapegoat? It doesn't matter if God lets him do something, or put him in place either. The point is that he exhibits the power and influence that one would attribute to a God.

Also note that one can acknowledge a Deity without worshiping them. I believe the God of Abraham exists as much as my own, but don't worship him.

I'm just curious, discuss?

Interesting post Darkstar. In fact The Yazidis, worship one of the seven angels, a diety they called the Peacock Angel "Pazuzu" and ISIS jihadist claims that it's Satan the fallen angel. The Yazidis is the oldest surviving religions in mesopotamia, But ISIS is bent on rendering the Yazidis extinct by extermination or conversion to Islam.