Are mormons/LDS racist?

[Katzpur]

it does have scriptural support.

I totally disagree and don't see your examples as supporting the ban. This is one topic in which I have a great interest and have done considerable research. This this is not the place for us to argue the point, though, and for two members of the Church to get into it here would serve no useful purpose.

 

[strengthofthepower]

Being black, an ex-member and a returned missionary. I saw it all. I lived in Utah for two years and that state has to be one of the most racist states in the union. Not just from a so-called African American stand point. They treat the Mexicans and Native Americans like second class citizens. It's so bad In Cedar City that the Native Americans shop at night for food. I experienced it first hand from non-members to members.

 

[Comprehend]

I totally disagree and don't see your examples as supporting the ban. This is one topic in which I have a great interest and have done considerable research. This this is not the place for us to argue the point, though, and for two members of the Church to get into it here would serve no useful purpose.

Fine.

 

[Comprehend]

Being black, an ex-member and a returned missionary. I saw it all. I lived in Utah for two years and that state has to be one of the most racist states in the union. Not just from a so-called African American stand point. They treat the Mexicans and Native Americans like second class citizens. It's so bad In Cedar City that the Native Americans shop at night for food. I experienced it first hand from non-members to members. I actually had a friend that was called a ni**er in the Salt Lake Temple. The Book of Mormon is first class racism, the so called Nephites were fair and delightsome and the Lamanites were dark and wicked. The best part of the book of Mormon was that the Nephites were wiped out. Nice fairy tale though.

liar.

 

[Katzpur]

Robert L. Millet, The Mormon Faith: Understanding Restored Christianity , p.177

21. Much has been said of discrimination against African American males and LDS women in regard to holding the priesthood in the LDS Church. Could you discuss this?

Acting under what he and his people believed to be divine direction, some time late in the 1830s the Prophet Joseph Smith established a position that the blessings of the priesthood should be withheld from black members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This practice continued in the Church through Joseph Smith's successors until the announcement of a revelation received by Spencer W. Kimball, twelfth president of the Church, in June of 1978. There is no statement directly from Joseph Smith himself offering commentary or doctrinal explanation for such an action, though the scriptural basis for a lineage-based granting or denial of priesthood may be found in the Pearl of Great Price. (Moses 7:8, 22; Abr. 1:21-27; see also Gen. 4:1-15; Moses 5:18-41.) Leaders of the Church have repeatedly affirmed that the position of the Church in regard to who does and does not bear the priesthood is a matter of revelation from heaven and not simply social or political expediency.

I don't think you heard me. Please reread my last post.

 

[Katzpur]

liar.

Funny how obvious that was to both of us, huh?

 

[Comprehend]

Funny how obvious that was to both of us, huh?

yep... must be a rookie, they get better with practice.

 

[DeepShadow]

The Book of Mormon is first class racism, the so called Nephites were fair and delightsome and the Lamanites were dark and wicked. The best part of the book of Mormon was that the Nephites were wiped out. Nice fairy tale though.

As a returned missionary, I'm amazed at your scanty knowledge of the scriptures. You forgot the references to the Lamanites as being more righteous than the Nephites, as stated repeatedly in Jacob. You likewise forgot that the People of Ammon were the most righteous in the Book of Mormon, and were all dark-skinned. Finally, you forgot the multiple references that stated that skin color was not a factor in coming to Christ.

Could it be that your memory since leaving the Church has been a little selective?

 

[Bishka]

[/color]
Could it be that your memory since leaving the Church has been a little selective?

For a lot of people, it seems to be; but then again perhaps these things have happened. Even so, most of the time the are exaggerated a bit, as I know VERY few Latter-day Saints that are like this (although Utah does seem to have 90% of them!)

 

[nutshell]

Or maybe what he posted is true from his POV and the way the wonderful Mormons are responding to his post only reinforces his current belief and disgust with the Church.

 

[Comprehend]

Or maybe what he posted is true from his POV and the way the wonderful Mormons are responding to his post only reinforces his current belief and disgust with the Church.

did you read the un-edited version? look at the text that is quoted in my post. I guarantee his friend was not called a n***er in the Salt Lake Temple. That is the biggest crock of BS I have heard in quite a while.

 

[SoyLeche]

did you read the un-edited version? look at the text that is quoted in my post. I guarantee his friend was not called a n***er in the Salt Lake Temple. That is the biggest crock of BS I have heard in quite a while.

I wouldn't put that in the "impossible" category, but I would put it in the "extrememly unlikely" category. If he is claiming the perpetrator was a temple worker and not a patron, it would be even more "extrememly unlikely".

 

[Comprehend]

I wouldn't put that in the "impossible" category, but I would put it in the "extrememly unlikely" category. If he is claiming the perpetrator was a temple worker and not a patron, it would be even more "extrememly unlikely".

I'm not buying the rest of his story either. I grew up in Utah, and I didn't see hispanics or blacks being treated as second class citizens at all. It seemed to me that people always went out of their way to make different cultures feel welcome in Utah. The whole shopping at night stuff is BS too, please point me to all the beatings and murders of native americans in Cedar City.

I never saw racism in Utah, I saw people bending over backwards to welcome others into the community. If he would like to see what racism looks like, tell him to come visit me in Alabama. UA still has segregated fraternities (although officially they aren't, there have never been any black men in the "white" frats, there are separate black frats). That is racism.

 

[SoyLeche]

I'm not buying the rest of his story either. I grew up in Utah, and I didn't see hispanics or blacks being treated as second class citizens at all. It seemed to me that people always went out of their way to make different cultures feel welcome in Utah. The whole shopping at night stuff is BS too, please point me to all the beatings and murders of native americans in Cedar City.

I never say racism in Utah, I saw people bending over backwards to welcome others into the community. If he would like to see what racism looks like, tell him to come visit me in Alabama. UA still has segregated fraternities (although officially they aren't, there have never been any black men in the "white" frats, there are separate black frats). That is racism.

I would agree with your assessment of Utah (I also grew up there), for the most part. The older generation (i.e. my grandparent's generation) outside of the Wasatch Front was and is fairly racist - but I would think that comes mostly from lack of exposure to other races.

 

[lilithu]

Do you? There's a history of black-on-black racism in churches here in the South that still exists today.

I wouldn't expect a Brit to recognize what "high yeller" means, but it's because some (black) churches used to have a piece of yellow pine hanging on the front of the church, and if you were darker than that -- go somewhere else. I haven't heard that anyone's using pine these days, but there attitude that you have to be a certain shade of brown, level of education, and NO trace of a "black" accent to be black "upper crust" is still alive and kicking, though this most recent generation has less of that.

It's really bizarre how racism twists up our culture in so many ways.

Internalized racism. When you internally believe the same racist assumptions even if you argue against it externally. Once the idea that dark skin is inferior is internalized, then a black person will go around observing how dark others are with respect to him and her and judging accordingly. Actually, not just blacks. Latinos, Asians, all of us. I suffered from this myself as a kid. Whenever I heard an Asian person speaking with an accent I resented him or her for making the rest of us look bad. As if there's something wrong with speaking with an accent. :cover:

No wonder Baha'is refer to racism as "America's Most Challenging Issue."

Our office manager is Baha'i and she keeps telling us that we UUs make too much of race.

 

[nutshell]

I'm not buying the rest of his story either. I grew up in Utah, and I didn't see hispanics or blacks being treated as second class citizens at all. It seemed to me that people always went out of their way to make different cultures feel welcome in Utah. The whole shopping at night stuff is BS too, please point me to all the beatings and murders of native americans in Cedar City.

I never say racism in Utah, I saw people bending over backwards to welcome others into the community. If he would like to see what racism looks like, tell him to come visit me in Alabama. UA still has segregated fraternities (although officially they aren't, there have never been any black men in the "white" frats, there are separate black frats). That is racism.

The part in bold is the real issue here. We all see things from a different POV and yours is different than his. That doesn't make either version more or less true for the one who experienced it.

 

[lilithu]

The part in bold is the real issue here. We all see things from a different POV and yours is different than his. That doesn't make either version more or less true for the one who experienced it.

Nutshell is absolutely right.

To answer the question in the thread title: "Are mormons/LDS racist?" I bet some are and some aren't, just like members of other religious affiliations. I am aware of a former teaching within the church that was used to justify racism. But then again, similar teachings in other religious traditions have been used to do the same thing. The OP might as well ask: "Are people racist?"

That said, I have no doubt that some people have experienced racism from some Mormons. Just because you didn't see it Comprehend doesn't make it any less real.

 

[strengthofthepower]

What need would I have to lie?? Also I never said blacks and hispanics. I said Native americans and mexicans. If you're gonna quote me...quote me right!! Yes a friend of mine who is still Mormon went to the Salt Lake Temple and was called a ni@@er. The exact quote was "When did we start letting ni@@ers in here." Believe it or not I don't care. I know what I've experienced, I hated ever year I lived in Utah. I also lived in Idaho...Rexburg to be exact...I know you LDS member's know why I was in Rexburg. But the thing I remember most wasn't in Utah. It was when I visited a Ward in Missouri with my Mom and Dad when I was 15. Talking about feeling unwelcomed. No one spoke to us until we were out the door and my Dad was a branch president!! C'mon why would I have to make this up.

Would you like more, how about members coming from Utah to the east coast calling blacks..."colored." This was in 1995!!! The masses of Mormon's here don't see the problem with that because they are not black...or colored. Hahaha....I can't attack the Book of Mormon because I'll get banned but if you really wanna talk you can email me at [email protected]. Especially if you are of negroid, hispanic and native american descent. Mormonism history isn't all roses.

Oh yeah....rookie...I think not How many rookies you know who served a mission in Massachussetts. What ever I chose to forget I did for a reason. My brain was dirty from all the endoctrination and BS I was fed and made myself believe.

Ok Latter Day Saints if you aren't racist, answer this. According to mormon doctrine..why are blacks dark skinned? Also what color will our skin be in heaven, since we will have heavenly bodies...right?? Don't dance around the question either...everyone in the post will see through it.

 

[lilithu]

Then why don't these organizations change their name?

Name recognition, otherwise known as branding. It's talked about all the time in marketing but is relevant for politics and other arenas as well. Changing names confuses people and it take a long time to recover from that.

I also don't see how these organizations being founded by blacks has anything to do with it.

As Soy Leche said, "context and intention must be looked at."

 

[Bishka]

What need would I have to lie??.

I could honestly think of a couple of reasons. One, you have a vendetta against the LDS Church and are out to smear it because you were treated horribly, two, you might just be mean Three, not sure, but I am sure there are thousands of reasons to lie.

Yes a friend of mine who is still Mormon went to the Salt Lake Temple and was called a ni@@er. The exact quote was "When did we start letting ni@@ers in here." Believe it or not I don't care.??.

Was it a temple worker or patron? If it was a patron; no offense, but so what (in a very kind way)?? We never claim to be perfect; and not everyone who enters the temple is a perfect person. Why is this an issue with you?

. No one spoke to us until we were out the door and my Dad was a branch president!! C'mon why would I have to make this up.

You wouldn't, but people aren't perfect. You are treating us like we are supposed to be perfect when none of us have claimed as such --- or even want to be that way at the moment.

Would you like more, how about members coming from Utah to the east coast calling blacks..."colored." This was in 1995!!!

Again, these are people, not saints.

The masses of Mormon's here don't see the problem with that because they are not black...or colored.

Actually there is more of a population of the Church living outside the United States and Canada then inside. That would say something, wouldn't it? As well, President Gordon B. Hinckley (the current Prophet and President) has given several talks and urged members to stop being racists, and things like that.

Mormonism history isn't all roses.

We never said it was.

Oh yeah....rookie...I think not How many rookies you know who served a mission in Massachussetts. What ever I chose to forget I did for a reason. My brain was dirty from all the endoctrination and BS Iwas fed and made myself believe./quote]

The bolded part is the key of this entire paragraph and rant.

Also what color will our skin be in heaven, since we will have heavenly bodies...right?? .

Whatever God wants it to be. I doubt it will be that much of an issue up there. For one, I could care less if it was black, yellow, white, brown or purple with green polka-dots. Race, skin color and ethnicity is not an issue with me. And you are making it out to be too much of one.

Don't dance around the question either...everyone in the post will see through it.

Whose dancing?
~Becky