Are muslims authoritorian followers ?

[maro]

We all know this famous story :

When Omar was the muslim caliph , clothes came in quantities from Yemen..Omar distirbuted them equally in public among the people.
Some days later he was seen wraped in a garb that matched with his size ,which meant that he had taken for himself more cloth than he had given every body else

One day ,with that long garb on ,Omar went up the pulpit to address people and urge them to join the army .He started his address saying :
" O brethren !listen and obey ."

And instead of being answered with warm shouts and applaud ,a strong voice was heard saying to him "No listening and no obedience "

Omar ,ver calmly ,looked at the speaker who chanced to be "Abdul Rahman ibn Awf " and said " Why ? May allah have mercy on you "

abdull Rahman with a daring voice said : "Supposedly you took the same lenght of cloth as you gave everyone of us .How then ,have you had that grab tailored to you ,when you are taller than anyone of us ? You must have favoured yourself with more cloth "

In defence of himseld ,Omar summoned his son abdullah to explain how all that had happened ,and abdullah proceeded forward to declare that he had relinquished his share of the cloth to his father to allow him to have a suitable garb tailored for him to meet the people in

upon hearing that ,"abdull Rahaman ibn Awf" said : " now we listen and obey "


Also we all know those ahadith pretty well :

"The best Jihad is to speak a word of truth to a tyrant ruler."

"He who remains silent gainst injustice is a mute satan "

where are we _ the nowadays muslims _ from all this ? where are the scholars from abd el Rahman ibn Awf ? why we are so apologists for our unislamic regimes ? when will the time come when we clearly anounce it " Enough " ?!

 

[Sahar]

There is no will to say "Enough". The corrupted unIslamic regimes are the reflections of nowadays Muslims and some who are called scholars.

 

[Fatihah]

We all know this famous story :

When Omar was the muslim caliph , clothes came in quantities from Yemen..Omar distirbuted them equally in public among the people.
Some days later he was seen wraped in a grap that matched with his size ,which meant that he had taken for himself more cloth than he had given every body else

One day ,with that long grab on ,Omar went up the pulpit to address people and urge them to join the army .He started his address saying :
" O brethren !listen and obey ."

And instead of being answered with warm shouts and applaud ,a strong voice was heard saying to him "No listening and no obedience "

Omar ,ver calmly ,looked at the speaker who chanced to be "Abdul Rahman ibn Awf " and said " Why ? May allah have mercy on you "

abdull Rahman with a daring voice said : "Supposedly you took the same lenght of cloth as you gave everyone of us .How then ,have you had that grab tailored to you ,when you are taller than anyone of us ? You must have favoured yourself with more cloth "

In defence of himseld ,Omar summoned his son abdullah to explain how all that had happened ,and abdullah proceeded forward to declare that he had relinquished his share of the cloth to his father to allow him to have a suitable garb tailored for him to meet the people in

upon hearing that ,"abdull Rahaman ibn Awf" said : " now we listen and obey "


Also we all know those ahadith pretty well :

"The best Jihad is to speak a word of truth to a tyrant ruler."

"He who remains silent gainst injustice is a mute satan "

where are we _ the nowadays muslims _ from all this ? where are the scholars from abd el Rahman ibn Awf ? why we are so apologists for our unislamic systems ? when will the time come when we clearly anounce it " Enough " ?!

Response: I believe many have spoken out but unfortunately the media does not broadcast it as much. And in the case of an injust tyrant, sometimes speaking out can mean death to the outspoken one. We as muslims should not forget the ways of Muhammad. How did Muhammad deal with the Meccan tyrants when he first began to teach the message of islam? Remember the hijra?

When the prophet first began to preach, he faced so much turmoil and threats from the meccan rulers. Did this stop him from preaching? No? Instead he gathered himself and his followers and went to Medina. In other words, he simply went where he could preach the message without hassle. Then when the meccan rulers learned of his actions, they ventured out to make war with the muslims but by this time, the muslims were much larger in number and were able better unite to defend themselves because they were in a place of security.

In short, when the muslims just decide to simply get up and speak out under the authority of a brutal tyrant, nothing will happen in their favor. Instead the muslims need to unite together and either leave as the prophet did or reach out to those muslims who can assemble together without the pressure of a tyrant over them. By doing so, this would help the muslims to be better united so that when the tyrants decide to attack, we as muslims are well prepared, well united, and ready, insha'Allah.

 

[AbuKhalid]

There are hundreds, if not thousands of Muslim Scholars in the prisons of Saudi Arabia alone. These people are there for speaking the truth. Sadly most of us are even unaware that this is happening.

 

[maro]

There is no will to say "Enough". The corrupted unIslamic regimes are the reflections of nowadays Muslims and some who are called scholars.

very well said ,not4me

In short, when the muslims just decide to simply get up and speak out under the authority of a brutal tyrant, nothing will happen in their favor.

I disgree

Silence +negativity + lack of awarness (of the people) = A tyrant

To solve a problem ,you have to be aware of it as a beginning....the problem is that although the state of the entire Ummah is miserable...The regimes are either weak or disloyal...Some muslims are still not aware that there is a problem with those regimes...they view there "crimes" as either " Realistic " or " inevitable "

and i think the problem is that they don't judge them with islamic standards like what abdul rahman ibn awf did with Omar ?

others are aware of the problem but have become insensitive to it....Muslim blood shed..So what ?....corruption of the muslim holy places...so what ?...poverty ...so what ?...That has become the norm...and they have been accustomed to it !..or may their insensitivity is attributed to their weak loyality to the ummah

Others are aware of the problem and are still sensitive to it ,but they don't want to face trouble..they have no power for the best jihad that was described by the prophet (PBUH)

The net result of all the above is : The Silence of the graves ,and those who talk...talk to justify and find excuses to the degree that makes you wish they have remained silent !

In short , we don't deserve but those rulers...and we have no right to wish for a ruler like Omar as long as we are not like abdul Rahman

 

[maro]

There are hundreds, if not thousands of Muslim Scholars in the prisons of Saudi Arabia alone. These people are there for speaking the truth. Sadly most of us are even unaware that this is happening.

That 's Great news ,abukhalid

During the events of gaza ,i was shocked by the weird fatwa that came from Saudi arabia about how the muslim mass rallies to show objection to the slaughter of their brothers is haram !!!!!
What kind of scholars who says something like that ? If he is not brave enough to crtisize the saudi regime for banning such a peaceful civilized way of expressing ourselves and showing compassion towards our brothers ...why not remain silent instead of such weird fatwa ?

 

[Cordoba]

very well said ,not4me

In short , we don't deserve but those rulers...and we have no right to wish for a ruler like Omar as long as we are not like abdul Rahman

You're right

Allah describes the mechanism for change in a Muslim society in chapter 13 of The Qur'an:

(Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves) (13:11)

So yes, when a Muslim society improves from within, it will get better rulers (and vice versa)

And Shura is the key for selecting a good ruler

But Shura needs practice, and its practice starts at the family level and at school

So the real question to ask right now is: Do we apply Shura in our daily lives?

And are we ready for applying real Shura on a wider scale in society?

 

[Peace]

Silence +negativity + lack of awarness (of the people) = A tyrant

In short , we don't deserve but those rulers...and we have no right to wish for a ruler like Omar as long as we are not like abdul Rahman

Allah describes the mechanism for change in a Muslim society in chapter 13 of The Qur'an:

(Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves) (13:11)

So yes, when a Muslim society improves from within, it will get better rulers (and vice versa)

Very true, the state of the Ummah will not change for the better until we change from within and we become like the Prophet's companions who were well taught by the best of teachers, Prophet Muhamnmad peace be upon him.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

This is such a wonderful topic you bring up sister. We collectively have decided that the Islamic standards simply aren't important to us anymore. This is from our daily living all the way up to the running of a government. We have become so weak now that it is as you said, we do not deserve anything better. Allah would not place a tyrant over us unless we deserved it.

Rasulullah (saw) said in hadith more or less that when we see an evil committed we should stop it with our hands, if we are too weak for this we should stop it with our tongues, and if we are too weak for this even we should at least feel it a wrong in our hearts and this is the weakest iman.

 

[TashaN]

That 's Great news ,abukhalid

During the events of gaza ,i was shocked by the weird fatwa that came from Saudi arabia about how the muslim mass rallies to show objection to the slaughter of their brothers is haram !!!!!
What kind of scholars who says something like that ? If he is not brave enough to crtisize the saudi regime for banning such a peaceful civilized way of expressing ourselves and showing compassion towards our brothers ...why not remain silent instead of such weird fatwa ?

Actually, in the Saudi law, it's forbidden to do mass rallies in the streets whether it's peaceful or not. It's not like Egypt. It has nothing to do with what was happening in Gaza. It's simply against the law. I don't know why we always think that ALL rulers without exception are evil and corrupted and do no good at all.

But Shura needs practice, and its practice starts at the family level and at school

So the real question to ask right now is: Do we apply Shura in our daily lives?

And are we ready for applying real Shura on a wider scale in society?

Exactly brother. Thank you.

I often hear many brothers and sisters scream for jihad or speak against the rulers of their country before even fixing their own homes. Now i don't say that all Muslim houses need to be fixed, because alhamdulilah many houses are full of Iman "faith". All what i'm saying is that the majority of people who complain about their rulers don't try to start with the basics. Family, education, community, then the rest will come by itself when a generation of REAL men and women comes to fix the pathetic statues of the ummah today.

The Prophet peace be upon him said: كما تكونوا يولى عليكم which means, and i hope someone will help with the translation if i was mistaken "a ruler will always be appointed, who match how you behave".

 

[Peace]

All what i'm saying is that the majority of people who complain about their rulers don't try to start with the basics. Family, education, community, then the rest will come by itself when a generation of REAL men and women comes to fix the pathetic statues of the ummah today.

I agree with you brother that change and reform should start by individuals and by the parents at home and the teachers at schools. If every parents give the right Islamic education to their children, the situation of our Ummah will never be like the one we are living now.
We all have this burden on our shoulders to carry this mission and to teach our future children the right education. If we fulfill this mission our Ummah will revive and awake and we will have great people who we will be proud of.
We all know that that there will come a time when the state of the Ummah will change for the better and we hope that that time will come soon

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

I hope you guys don't mind me peeking in for a sec. If so just delete this.

We have become so weak now that it is as you said, we do not deserve anything better. Allah would not place a tyrant over us unless we deserved it.

As humble as this is, and understanding that Islam means submission, I still must say that you all do not deserve this. I couldn't begin to imagine how you all feel. I feel that the injustices done agianst you must be through evil gone wild in some human nature, not Allah. You all simply could not deserve this. :hug:

Be safe and be strong. Safe above all else.

 

[maro]

Actually, in the Saudi law, it's forbidden to do mass rallies in the streets whether it's peaceful or not. It's not like Egypt. It has nothing to do with what was happening in Gaza. It's simply against the law.

And what do you personally think about that law ? is it ok ?

I don't know why we always think that ALL rulers without exception are evil and corrupted and do no good at all.

So ,you don't agree with me that the arab rulers are either weak or disloyal to the ummah and sometimes to their own countries ?

and what about the saudi regime in particular ? how do you evalute it ? its stance from the palestininan case and all the islamic troubles in general ? how do you evalute the shura in your country ? and what about the shcolars in the prisons whom abu khaled taked about ? is this true ?
and don't you agree with me that some of the saudi sholars' fatwas have been shocking lately..not the one i critisized in particular...but in general ? !

I often hear many brothers and sisters scream for jihad or speak against the rulers of their country before even fixing their own homes. Now i don't say that all Muslim houses need to be fixed, because alhamdulilah many houses are full of Iman "faith". All what i'm saying is that the majority of people who complain about their rulers don't try to start with the basics. Family, education, community, then the rest will come by itself when a generation of REAL men and women comes to fix the pathetic statues of the ummah today.

The Prophet peace be upon him said: كما تكونوا يولى عليكم which means, and i hope someone will help with the translation if i was mistaken "a ruler will always be appointed, who match how you behave".

I agree..we have to fix ourselves...and meanwhile we have to speak up and critisize what needs to be crtiisized...is there a contradiction ?

 

[maro]

btw , i never said that the rulers don't do good at all...but when someone is 20% up to the responsibility ,for example...should we praise and applaud the 20% ?

I often hear many brothers and sisters scream for jihad

considering that the ummah is not bleeding ,it's hemorraging like yvone ridley said . what 's wrong with the scream for gihad ? should we wait for Hamas to fall down and for the gazans to be eradictaed ?
We are not that weak...and they are not that scary....what else should we wait for to scream for gihad ? more blood shed ? more humiliation ? more countries to be invaded ? more riches to be stolen ?

Is the call for gihad too idelaistic and not realistic ? ..but this is not what history says...we have never ever been more powerful and equipped than our defeated enemies..

The only reason why the gihad is not in action is the rulers..they suppress it ...and are not even neutral.

 

[Sajdah]

Asslamu Alaikum,

when will the time come when we clearly anounce it " Enough " ?!

When our scholars stop blaming peoples only and fight oppressors with saying the truth.
Allah SWT says:
[3:110] You (true believers in Islâmic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his Sunnah) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all that Islâm has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islâm has forbidden), and you believe in Allâh.

I don't know why we always think that ALL rulers without exception are evil and corrupted and do no good at all.

Not all of them are evil 100%, there are some who are less evil. But it doesn't mean that they are good, because their evil deeds always win.

The Prophet peace be upon him said: كما تكونوا يولى عليكم which means, and i hope someone will help with the translation if i was mistaken "a ruler will always be appointed, who match how you behave

This is a weak Hadith brother, that's what those scholars who don't fear Allah are doing, they are deceiving us with saying that we are responsible for everything. Of course we have to change what is in ourselves, our families, and our neighbors. But it will take many decades, and our enemies won't wait for us. Al-Aqsa is on the verge of collapse, so we cannot wait for so long.
What I want to say is that the change from the peoples only is wrong, and from regimes only is wrong too. So the change will be noticeable when it comes from both peoples and regimes.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

You know, Saudi regime is one of the worst of all to me because the "royalty" of that country are always schmoozing with American government leaders. This is the same America whose military and foreign policy are directly responsible for the atrocities and murders happening all across the Muslim lands where they are present. Let's look at Pakistan for a moment. It was Pakistan who allowed the US military among others to use the airspace necessary to launch the attack against Afghanistan. Had the leader of the country refused to allow that, it would have been much more difficult strategically to attack any of the Muslim lands.

Think about it, if every Muslim country denies access to the US military how near to impossible would it be to just go in and kill our brothers and sisters? The US could not have waged war on one without waging war on them all simultaneously.

The fact of the matter is the majority of the so called Muslim leaders are munafiqeen who are in the pockets of the global elite. This includes being in the pocket of the American government. Those who aren't willing to be the pawns in this game played against the ummah are invaded or will soon be, and the propaganda against them is astounding.


BTW, as for the law against rallying peacefully or not in Saudi, that's complete garbage. I bet you anything it was design to keep the common people from taking to the streets in protest against their government.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

I'd like to add that instead of being a fortified and unified front we are scattered about aimlessly without direction. The basic root cause for all these problems is the weakness of our individual iman and a general unwillingness to practice Islam as it is.

We are constantly trying to mold and shape Islam into what fits us as opposed to hear and obey, or even mental submission to Allah and His rasul. A Muslim is one who submits his/her own will to the will of Allah. Not the other way around. We will continue to suffer spiritually and in all worldy matters until we figure out what a Muslim is. Until we stop accepting one part of Islam and reject the other, until we engage in amr bil ma'ruf wa nahiy anil munkar even just among ourselves and our families, it will never end.

We like to look back at the "glory days" of Islam but we don't care to know how those days came to be. We (as a whole) don't even want to make salaat on a regular basis. In short our main and really only problem is weakness of Iman. That covers a whole lot of ground when you think about it.

Individually we break all of Allah's commandments. Fornication, no salaat, no dhikr, no zakat, no sadaqah, engaging in interest, no fikr for the welfare of others particularly Muslims, and making the halal to be haram and the haram to be halal we involve ourselves in these crimes daily. We can know that a certain person commits adultery but won't move a muscle to stop it or at least remind one another the orders of Allah. We don't check ourselves from wrongdoing and neither do we check one another, and it has led to nothing but ruin to us as a whole. We find excuses as to why we don't have to obey this, or we don't have to do that and no one can tell me that it has done us any good. What have we accomplished as an ummah? What can we be proud of today?

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Is the call for gihad too idelaistic and not realistic ?

Repetition of certain ideas makes them beliefs, and that's how we are driven to believe that Jihad is no more than a historical term describing an idealistic idea.

The call of Jihad is considered a sort of insanity because it calls for an idea that hasn't been tried for ages!

 

[Gharib]

As humble as this is, and understanding that Islam means submission, I still must say that you all do not deserve this. I couldn't begin to imagine how you all feel. I feel that the injustices done agianst you must be through evil gone wild in some human nature, not Allah. You all simply could not deserve this. :hug:

Be safe and be strong. Safe above all else.

since no one has answered you on this, i'll try to explain

the reason why that statement was said was because of this verse;

[4:79] Anything good that happens to you is from GOD, and anything bad that happens to you is from you......

we as muslims had our own government, we had our leaders, but due to a dispute amongst us, we lost our government and we have been divided, now it is others who are ruling us and do what they want.

in a hadith, the prophet states that "we will be ruled by the non muslims and we will be weak to deffend ourselves."

then he is asked "will we be low in numbers"

he says "no you will be big in numbers, but will be scatered to every corner of the earth and will not be united"

i think thats accurate.

 

[kai]

Hi

I just wondered what or who would be the ideal ruler for the Ummah, is there a candidate for Caliph in the world today? or do you choose one?

In an ideal world where all muslims are under true Islamic rule and true Sharia ,who would be in Charge?

and does anyone think this ideal world is unatainable? or on the other hand attainable?