Are permanent alliances in America's interests?

[Shad]

You can babble all you want, but you (and anyone else reading) can clearly see that in all of your posts here, you have not posted a single link, not one citation to back up anything you've said.

You never asked. More so some of my points should be common knowledge. Try again

In other words: Nothing. No facts. Just McCarthyite propaganda.

Assertion and fallacious thinking. A lack of citation does not make something not a fact.

Trump is POTUS. I provided no citation for this. Is Trump POTUS?

Try again son.

 

[Stevicus]

You never asked. More so some of my points should be common knowledge. Try again



Assertion and fallacious thinking. A lack of citation does not make something not a fact.

Trump is POTUS. I provided no citation for this. Is Trump POTUS?

Try again son.

Actually, as far as I'm concerned, you surrendered this discussion in post #47. I raised numerous points which you failed to answer. I refuted every single one of your points, so if you have nothing left to counter with, then why bother continuing? Why didn't you just stop posting then and there? Why do you keep on like this when you've already conceded the main part of the debate?

You accuse me of sounding like RT propaganda, but you fail to recognize that most of the "evil empire" garbage you're spouting is crypto-fascist Reaganite propaganda. As I said, you haven't said a single thing that I haven't already heard many times before.

 

[Stevicus]

Permanent alliances seem to be in your interest if you wish to be thought of as loyal, reliable and trustworthy. If those are unimportant to you, then maybe not.

I don't see how one would have anything to do with the other. Do you mean to imply that neutral countries like Switzerland and Sweden are not loyal, reliable, or trustworthy?

 

[Stevicus]

What's RT?

Russian Television - a network I don't watch. Actually, most of what I've posted in this discussion is based on my own studies of Russian history, as well as their literature, language, culture. It's really not from the internet or TV or propaganda, but from history professors and the texts they assigned.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I don't see how one would have anything to do with the other. Do you mean to imply that neutral countries like Switzerland and Sweden are not loyal, reliable, or trustworthy?

In terms of alliances, they're not. Are you suggesting the US adopt a stance similar to those two countries? That rather demands an end to American foreign interventions, too. Plenty of people would applaud such a move, I'm just pointing out that withdrawing from alliances is pretty complex

 

[Stevicus]

In terms of alliances, they're not. Are you suggesting the US adopt a stance similar to those two countries? That rather demands an end to American foreign interventions, too. Plenty of people would applaud such a move, I'm just pointing out that withdrawing from alliances is pretty complex

Yes, I agree that withdrawing from alliances is pretty complex, just as entering into them is also complex. I would also applaud ending American interventionism.

A more practical question is how much do we actually need in terms of "national security," and how much do we want to spend on it? Is it possible that our leaders are overstating the danger so as to justify big bloated military budgets?

Part of the problem is not so much that the world is really all that "dangerous" - at least not anymore than it usually has been throughout history. In fact, I've seen some argue that the world is far less dangerous today than it was in the past. That may be a debatable point, but still, the world has changed immensely since the time of the World Wars and even the Cold War. Whatever kind of alliance system we choose to have, it should be flexible and adaptable.

I keep thinking of the concept of endless war as described by Orwell in 1984. War can be used as a distraction, to keep people's minds off their troubles at home. Maybe our leaders got bored at not having a Cold War anymore that they decided to create one. So, Oceania can be at odds with Eurasia and Eastasia once again.

All I'm saying is that, if the U.S. decides to opt out of this nonsense, then maybe that would be an important first step to stopping the insanity.

 

[Shad]

Actually, as far as I'm concerned, you surrendered this discussion in post #47.

No I saw it as pointless as you ignored the whole Cold War regarding Poland to dig up history from 2 centuries ago. A history which was a result of Russian and Prussian action. Try to research again son.

I raised numerous points which you failed to answer.

Your points are opinions and mostly irrelevant. I do not need to answer nonsensical points. Try again

I refuted every single one of your points,

No you didn't. You just babbled. Try again son. Cite a single refutation if you can.

so if you have nothing left to counter with, then why bother continuing?

I do not need to counter babble and nonsense.

Why didn't you just stop posting then and there?

I ended the a specific topic of discussion not any discussion. Now read my post again. I said your failed to convince me. Now we are discussing the fiction in your head and your horrible researching abilities.

Why do you keep on like this when you've already conceded the main part of the debate?

I never conceded. I said you failed to convince me with your arguments. Try again son. Get a dictionary and use it

Definition of conceded | Dictionary.com

You accuse me of sounding like RT propaganda, but you fail to recognize that most of the "evil empire" garbage you're spouting is crypto-fascist Reaganite propaganda.

I never cited anything from the US. Try again son. I said Russia is a threat via its own actions none of which were about the US itself. Yawn. Like I said Eastern Bloc and Cold War. Georgia and Crimea. Ukraine. Instead you whined about Napoleon

As I said, you haven't said a single thing that I haven't already heard many times before.

That is because you followed the fiction in your head instead of what I said as per your "is crypto-fascist Reaganite propaganda" babble. Try again son.

 

[Stevicus]

No I saw it as pointless

That's your story, but do you think I'm going to take your word for it? No, you surrendered because you couldn't keep up.

as you ignored the whole Cold War regarding Poland to dig up history from 2 centuries ago. A history which was a result of Russian and Prussian action. Try to research again son.

I ignored nothing. Reread the posts son.

Your points are opinions and mostly irrelevant. I do not need to answer nonsensical points. Try again

Then why are you posting?

No you didn't. You just babbled. Try again son. Cite a single refutation if you can.

Well, for one thing, you cited "Eastern Europe" as your basis for your belief that the Russians are aggressive. I demonstrated that it was a defensive action which was necessitated by Western aggression. The Russians did so out of necessity, not because they wanted to. If you can't understand this basic concept, then you're the one who's babbling. You can claim that you know what they were thinking, but that's all it is.

I do not need to counter babble and nonsense.

And yet, here you are anyway.

I ended the a specific topic of discussion not any discussion. Now read my post again. I said your failed to convince me. Now we are discussing the fiction in your head and your horrible researching abilities.

And you have failed to convince me due to the fiction in your head and your horrible researching abilities.

I responded to your points, but you left them unanswered because you didn't have anything left to counter with. That's why you gave up, but now you're desperately trying to save face by making irrelevant, unfounded, and uncalled for snipes against me.

It's the same old story with you. You can't respond to the arguments, so you make it personal. That's your M.O. around here, and don't try to deny it.

I never conceded. I said you failed to convince me with your arguments. Try again son. Get a dictionary and use it

And you have failed to convince me. If anything, we were at a standoff, and you decided to quit. The reason being is that your propaganda has very little depth to it. I've seen it before, and while McCarthyism may have convinced the average ignorant sheep out there, it never really could stand up to any real scrutiny or criticism on an academic level. That's why you had nowhere to go but out. If you had an ounce of integrity, you would be man enough to admit this.

I never cited anything from the US. Try again son. I said Russia is a threat via its own actions none of which were about the US itself. Yawn. Like I said Eastern Bloc and Cold War. Georgia and Crimea. Ukraine. Instead you whined about Napoleon

This thread is about the U.S., and you've been talking about the U.S. throughout. You must be getting your ideas from somewhere, and we already know it's not from any academic source. You're just parroting propaganda.

The worst part about it is that people with your warmongering attitude would send others to fight your wars based on your own personal paranoia about Russia. I don't see you putting on an American uniform, son. You say that America has to fight your battles for you, and you imply that we Americans don't even have any real choice. You claim that we must do so because the rest of the world is far too weak to defend itself (although you've failed to cite any stats to back up this assertion).

That is because you followed the fiction in your head instead of what I said as per your "is crypto-fascist Reaganite propaganda" babble. Try again son.

At least I've been able to explain where I've gotten my ideas from and how I reached my conclusions (and it's not RT or the Russian government, despite your nonsensical and baseless accusations). You, on the other hand, read like a pamphlet from the John Birch Society.

 

[Shad]

That's your story, but do you think I'm going to take your word for it? No, you surrendered because you couldn't keep up.

Wrong. You can believe a fiction in your head if you want. You have that freedom

I ignored nothing. Reread the posts son.

Wrong. You denied Poland has reasons to want to join NATO instead called it a hostile action against Russia. Yawn

Then why are you posting?

Because I want to.

Well, for one thing, you cited "Eastern Europe" as your basis for your belief that the Russians are aggressive. I demonstrated that it was a defensive action which was necessitated by Western aggression.

This is babble. The West did nothing to force Russia (USSR) to seize what is now known as the Eastern Bloc.

The Russians did so out of necessity, not because they wanted to.

I do not believe that.

If you can't understand this basic concept, then you're the one who's babbling.

I rejected this claim. Try again

You can claim that you know what they were thinking, but that's all it is.

Likewise with your necessity babble.

And you have failed to convince me due to the fiction in your head and your horrible researching abilities.

Yawn. You are merely parroting me without linking anything as babble. Try again.

I responded to your points, but you left them unanswered because you didn't have anything left to counter with.

Assertion only made to declare victory. Yawn

That's why you gave up, but now you're desperately trying to save face by making irrelevant, unfounded, and uncalled for snipes against me.

Fiction in your head. Yawn.

It's the same old story with you. You can't respond to the arguments, so you make it personal. That's your M.O. around here, and don't try to deny it.

Wrong. I responded. I mocked you later for your fantasy based responses.

And you have failed to convince me. If anything, we were at a standoff, and you decided to quit.

You are contradicting your previous fiction.

The reason being is that your propaganda has very little depth to it.

I cited no propaganda. You are just making an assertion without evidence.

I've seen it before, and while McCarthyism may have convinced the average ignorant sheep out there, it never really could stand up to any real scrutiny or criticism on an academic level. That's why you had nowhere to go but out. If you had an ounce of integrity, you would be man enough to admit this.

Projection

This thread is about the U.S., and you've been talking about the U.S. throughout. You must be getting your ideas from somewhere, and we already know it's not from any academic source. You're just parroting propaganda.

Assertion. You have no evidence of anything I said is from propaganda. Try again

The worst part about it is that people with your warmongering attitude would send others to fight your wars based on your own personal paranoia about Russia.

I never said anything about starting a war. Projection

I don't see you putting on an American uniform, son.

I wouldn't pass the medical as I failed the medical in Canada. Less fiction in your head.

You say that America has to fight your battles for you

I said no such thing

and you imply that we Americans don't even have any real choice.

I said no such thing.

You claim that we must do so because the rest of the world is far too weak to defend itself (although you've failed to cite any stats to back up this assertion).

No I said that the US is doing so as it has an interest. No nation would take up that mantle if the US refused to police the world.

At least I've been able to explain where I've gotten my ideas from and how I reached my conclusions (and it's not RT or the Russian government, despite your nonsensical and baseless accusations). You, on the other hand, read like a pamphlet from the John Birch Society.

You haven't explained anything of substance.

 

[Stevicus]

Wrong. You can believe a fiction in your head if you want. You have that freedom

No, I'm right. Prove that I'm wrong, otherwise retract your assertions.

Wrong.

Prove it or retract.

You denied Poland has reasons to want to join NATO instead called it a hostile action against Russia.

Never said any such thing. Quote me, if you think I did.

Yawn

If you're really that tired.

Because I want to.

So, when you said earlier that you didn't have time, were you lying? You're definitely one of the more mendacious posters on RF.

This is babble. The West did nothing to force Russia (USSR) to seize what is now known as the Eastern Bloc.

Yes, they did, when they chose to rebuild and rearm West Germany.

I do not believe that.

Who cares what you believe? I certainly don't.

I rejected this claim. Try again

It doesn't matter what you reject. You're wrong. You try again.

Likewise with your necessity babble.

No, I stated fact. It's you who is babbling.

Yawn. You are merely parroting me without linking anything as babble. Try again.

No, I'm mocking you, not parroting you.

Assertion only made to declare victory. Yawn

Post #47. You had your chance to address the points I made and develop your arguments further, but you failed to do so due to a lack of knowledge. That's what happens when you get your information from right-wing pamphlets. You obviously discovered that you were in over your head and unable to address the sensible and factual points I made.

Fiction in your head. Yawn.

Are you running out of insults? That's several times you've repeated the word "yawn." Don't you have anything better in your repertoire?

Wrong.

Prove it or retract.

I responded. I mocked you later for your fantasy based responses.

And that's the fiction in your head.

You are contradicting your previous fiction.

No, we were at a standoff by post #46. In post #47, you conceded.

I cited no propaganda. You are just making an assertion without evidence.

:::cough:::cough::: "Eastern Bloc."

Projection

So, then, you're admitting that you're not man enough to acknowledge your deficiencies in this discussion?

Assertion. You have no evidence of anything I said is from propaganda. Try again

As I said, I've heard it many times before from others just like you. That's enough to convince me that you're nothing but a propagandist. You basically said as much about me, except you didn't say how you reached that conclusion.

I never said anything about starting a war. Projection

What you advocate is tantamount to warmongering.

I wouldn't pass the medical as I failed the medical in Canada. Less fiction in your head.

Still, I find it interesting that you're so quick to send someone else's sons to fight wars based on your own ignorant paranoia about Russia.

I said no such thing

You implied it:

The US accepted that mantel as no one else was willing nor capable of doing so. More so the UN and nations call upon the US to fulfill that role. The world needs the US to fulfill that role.

The EU does not have a large military as something called the US military protects most of those nations.

...

They had 2 reasons they didn't. One was the US military and the other was the US military with nukes.

I said no such thing.

You implied it.

What is your standing in this discussion anyway? You are not even an American citizen, yet you presume to dictate to an American how he should view his government and what kind of policies he should advocate for. At least, I advocate what is good for America. From your standpoint, you're trying to advocate what is good for "the world" or possibly only your own country. America's interests are not a concern for you.

No I said that the US is doing so as it has an interest. No nation would take up that mantle if the US refused to police the world.

That's pure speculation on your part.

On what basis do you believe that the US "has an interest" in taking on this position of world policeman? Maybe a few elite private sector factions benefit, but the vast majority of American citizens do not benefit one iota. They may have been duped into believing that it's necessary for our security, but that's because they've been listening to the same propaganda sources as you have been.

You haven't explained anything of substance.

Assertion.

 

[Shad]

No, I'm right. Prove that I'm wrong, otherwise retract your assertions.

Assertion

Prove it or retract.

Reread the posts and try again. Your counter was babble about Napoleon

Never said any such thing. Quote me, if you think I did.

You countered that it was a hostile act against Russia and babbled about Napoleon. Read the comment chain again.

If you're really that tired.

Sarcasm. Heard of it?

So, when you said earlier that you didn't have time, were you lying?

I said nothing about time.

You're definitely one of the more mendacious posters on RF.

Assertion.

Yes, they did, when they chose to rebuild and rearm West Germany.

Duh. The USSR took over half of Europe. Try again

Who cares what you believe? I certainly don't.

Yet here you are responding.

It doesn't matter what you reject. You're wrong. You try again.

Assertion

No, I stated fact. It's you who is babbling.

No you stated an opinion

No, I'm mocking you, not parroting you.

By parroting. Try again.

Post #47. You had your chance to address the points I made and develop your arguments further, but you failed to do so due to a lack of knowledge. That's what happens when you get your information from right-wing pamphlets. You obviously discovered that you were in over your head and unable to address the sensible and factual points I made.

I do not address irrelevant babble. Get over it.

Are you running out of insults? That's several times you've repeated the word "yawn." Don't you have anything better in your repertoire?

Babble

Prove it or retract.

You made the assumption. I disagreed. The ball is in your court. Try again.

And that's the fiction in your head.

Nope. You made assumption which came from your head. Try again.

No, we were at a standoff by post #46. In post #47, you conceded.

Nope. I never said you were right. Try again. Get a dictionary.



:

::cough:::cough::: "Eastern Bloc."

Which is history. Try again.

So, then, you're admitting that you're not man enough to acknowledge your deficiencies in this discussion?

Fiction in your head again.

As I said, I've heard it many times before from others just like you. That's enough to convince me that you're nothing but a propagandist. You basically said as much about me, except you didn't say how you reached that conclusion.

Babble

What you advocate is tantamount to warmongering.

Nope.

Still, I find it interesting that you're so quick to send someone else's sons to fight wars based on your own ignorant paranoia about Russia.

Never suggested a war against Russia. Try again

You implied it:

Fiction in your head

You implied it.

Fiction in your head.

What is your standing in this discussion anyway? You are not even an American citizen, yet you presume to dictate to an American how he should view his government and what kind of policies he should advocate for. At least, I advocate what is good for America. From your standpoint, you're trying to advocate what is good for "the world" or possibly only your own country. America's interests are not a concern for you.

Canada benefits from NATO. A NATO backed by the US. Canada needs the US for defense and trade.

That's pure speculation on your part.

Wrong. German bases are a major center for logistics and medical needs. Try again

On what basis do you believe that the US "has an interest" in taking on this position of world policeman?

Trade. Heard of it?

Maybe a few elite private sector factions benefit, but the vast majority of American citizens do not benefit one iota.

They benefit due to trade. Not my problem Americans are clueless.

They may have been duped into believing that it's necessary for our security, but that's because they've been listening to the same propaganda sources as you have been.

Nope. They are just clueless

Assertion.

Nope

 

[Stevicus]

Assertion



Reread the posts and try again. Your counter was babble about Napoleon





You countered that it was a hostile act against Russia and babbled about Napoleon. Read the comment chain again.





Sarcasm. Heard of it?





I said nothing about time.



Assertion.




Duh. The USSR took over half of Europe. Try again





Yet here you are responding.





Assertion





No you stated an opinion





By parroting. Try again.





I do not address irrelevant babble. Get over it.





Babble





You made the assumption. I disagreed. The ball is in your court. Try again.



Nope. You made assumption which came from your head. Try again.





Nope. I never said you were right. Try again. Get a dictionary.



:

Which is history. Try again.





Fiction in your head again.





Babble





Nope.





Never suggested a war against Russia. Try again





Fiction in your head




Fiction in your head.



Canada benefits from NATO. A NATO backed by the US. Canada needs the US for defense and trade.





Wrong. German bases are a major center for logistics and medical needs. Try again



Trade. Heard of it?



They benefit due to trade. Not my problem Americans are clueless.



Nope. They are just clueless





Nope

I see nothing more of substance to respond to here.

 

[Shad]

I see nothing more of substance to respond to here.

There is plenty. You are stuck in your loop and can not escape.

Get that dictionary yet?

 

[Stevicus]

There is plenty. You are stuck in your loop and can not escape.

Get that dictionary yet?

I already have a dictionary, although there are plenty of online dictionaries available.

 

[Shad]

I already have a dictionary, although there are plenty of online dictionaries available.

Good now look up the word concede. I never conceded anything. I withdrawed from a discussion. Look up that word too.

 

[Stevicus]

Good now look up the word concede. I never conceded anything. I withdrawed from a discussion. Look up that word too.

 

[Shad]

Try reading then