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Are Playing Cards Evil ???

FFH

Veteran Member
I simply cannot stand anything that makes me think of that industry, in my home, dice and dominos included, dominos being dice in a different form..

So those are the only things that stand out in my mind, poker cards, dice and dominos.

Scott pointed out that bridge cards are similar to poker cards, (not really familiar with bridge cards at all), but they would be included if they are basically the same as poker cards..
 

FFH

Veteran Member
*twiddles thumbs and wonders if FFH will ever respond to points brought up in posts #67 and #145*:sad:
Okay, will go back and reread your posts.

It seemed you were upset, so thought I would let you cool down a bit before carrying on a discussion with you on this matter..

Live your life the way you want, that's the way it should be, just tryin' to make people aware of some of the subtle ways Satan uses to keep our hearts loyal to him and his destructive ways.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
Satan's subtle ways only work if you allow them to. TV, internet, movies, etc. can all be used for good or evil. Why are cards any different? Puritan tradition?
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
Live your life the way you want, that's the way it should be, just tryin' to make people aware of some of the subtle ways Satan uses to keep our hearts loyal to him and his destructive ways.

Like keeping us concentrated on things that are irrelevant while we miss the big picture?
 

FFH

Veteran Member
I'm curious,what did you do to give you such a feeling within yourself? It is probably too personal.
It was a combination/culmination of various things, not any one thing in particular, which led up to that point. The feelings of flames in my body and especially in my head got very very intense, at their worst, and became all consuming. Sleep came as a relief for a few hours each night, at the peak of this brief period in my life, I could not sleep inside, for some reason, and spent many nights outside sleeping under the stars in the month of August of 2006, then as I awoke it started again as I stepped inside my small one bedroom apartment. I vividly remember the worst night, falling asleep late into the night, inside the apartment, about 4 am to the sound of very loud lightenings, which seemed to be the anger of God and angels battling demons on my behalf. I heard the spirit whisper, "why will ye lay down and die???" very vividly....

I was choosing not to make any choices, that's the only way I can describe my rebellion against God.

God would rather we be black or white....

The teaching on this is very clear...and plainly written out in scripture...

I was choosing not to decide or make any decisions and was willing to just lay down and die. I would not eat...the flames got pretty intense and I cried out to my wife and said, "I feel like my head is on fire".

She freaked out a bit and could not handle being around me..

It seemed to spread throughout my body and began to cleanse me of all that was bothering me....

I'm grateful for the experience. This is only a brief description. What led to that is a bit more involved, basically I had been unable to work for a year, due to a motorcycle accident and did not want to and could not go back to the job I had before, due to my injury and was running out of money to support myself and was contemplating giving up everything I owned and living on the street rather than going back to my old job or any job for that matter. My wife finally called a few neighbors to come over and give me a blessing for my physical and spirtual recovery, so I could get back to work...

After two seperate blessings, one from my Elder's quorum president (LDS men's organization) and one from the Bishop (leader) of my ward (church organizanition) as well as some great conversations with them both, I was able to get back to work and am currently at the same job I've had for 18 years and making more money than I've ever made there in my life so far, which isn't much, but it's twice the amount that I need to survive/live on..

God is good and he can use the flames of hell to cleanse our souls and redeem us from that aweful place...

We will all eventually be redeemed from that aweful place after we have been cleansed "every wit".

Wow,that's full-on!
I've also experience the extreme isolation that is found in hell, about 20 years earlier while walking the streets of Yokohama, Japan as an LDS missionary. Something transformed my mind and I was allowed to slip into the spirit world all around us and feel the isolated feelings of those around me who were in a hell of sorts....and I've also seen a demon flash before my face for a second, saw him vividly, very perfect beautiful face, as all spirits, good or evil have perfect looking spirit bodies, and felt his exptreme despair and torment. It's horrible and only they (demons/Satan's angels) will spend eternity there with Satan. None of us will ever spend an eternity there, according to LDS doctrine.

I will probably move this to another thread as an opening post...

So mods don't worry, I'll move this okay ????
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Like keeping us concentrated on things that are irrelevant while we miss the big picture?
Whatever, it's all relevant, and affects us one way or another, whether you choose to recognize that or not..
 

Hope

Princesinha
Okay, will go back and reread your posts.

It seemed you were upset, so thought I would let you cool down a bit before carrying on a discussion with you on this matter..

I'm not upset at all. Merely annoyed that some very good, Scriptural objections to your views were brought up and never responded to. I would still love to hear what you have to say. :)
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Satan's subtle ways only work if you allow them to. TV, internet, movies, etc. can all be used for good or evil. Why are cards any different? Puritan tradition?
No, they hold people bound in extremely subtle ways, almost/complelely unnoticeable to the one afflicted. Sometimes it take another pointing out the chans/chords in another's life...

There are many "tricks" used by those in oppositon to God's plan of happiness, which hold us bound to this world...

All forms of entertainment/media can be used for good. TV, radio/music, computers/internet, DVD's, video games, board and card games, etc...

Of course they are also used by those who oppose the works of God in this world...

In this life, our "Joy is not full," as Christ revealed to Joseph Smith, but we can make it a peaceful life by doing/avoiding certain things.

This has been my main goal in life, to make a peaceful life for myself...

My mind is clear...my heart is full, but this has not always been the case. I've experienced an empty feeling heart, it's aweful and a tormented/cluttered mind...

"Peace beyond understanding"

I heard this spoken to my mind several days ago..

Is this not what we're all striving for ?????

I have also experienced, "joy unspeakable" for a few seconds. It's worth fighting for by "enduring" this life for sure..
 

Hope

Princesinha
Yes, because of the dice, which are used for gambling...

I know this for a fact, the spirit has whispered this to my mind over and over and over, that's the only way I can describe it...

Interesting that you have a problem with dice too. Apparently the first apostles of the church didn't have a problem with them:

"And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias..." (Acts 1:26)

I've always understood the Biblical references to the "casting of lots" to refer to something like dice. And this "casting of lots" is used a few times, if not many times, throughout Scripture. And if even the apostles used this method, then how can we say it's evil? Are we more spiritual than they are? :confused:
 

FFH

Veteran Member
I'm not upset at all. Merely annoyed that some very good, Scriptural objections to your views were brought up and never responded to. I would still love to hear what you have to say. :)
Okay, will get to it...

Your posts struck a chord in my heart and I want to respond to them, just this seems to be a touchy subject and don't want to offend anyone and you definitely seemed to be offended...

That's why I avoided responding to your posts, I would rather just let it be with you and still may do just that...

No one's trying to take away your free agency, only trying to add to the joy you already know and experience in Christ...
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Interesting that you have a problem with dice too. Apparently the first apostles of the church didn't have a problem with them:

"And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias..." (Acts 1:26)

I've always understood the Biblical references to the "casting of lots" to refer to something like dice. And this "casting of lots" is used a few times, if not many times, throughout Scripture. And if even the apostles used this method, then how can we say it's evil? Are we more spiritual than they are? :confused:
Were lots associated with gambling ???

It was a civil way to decide who should do orreceive whatever.

Like flipping a coin. Is that evil ??? NO !!!!!

They flipped a coin/cast lots to decide who would keep Jesus' garment for instance...

Nice tr
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Interesting that you have a problem with dice too. Apparently the first apostles of the church didn't have a problem with them:

"And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias..." (Acts 1:26)

I've always understood the Biblical references to the "casting of lots" to refer to something like dice. And this "casting of lots" is used a few times, if not many times, throughout Scripture. And if even the apostles used this method, then how can we say it's evil? Are we more spiritual than they are? :confused:
Were lots associated with gambling ???

It was a civil way to decide who should do or receive whatever.

Like flipping a coin. Is that evil ??? NO !!

They flipped a coin/cast lots to decide who would keep Jesus' garment for instance...
 

Hope

Princesinha
Okay, will get to it...

Your posts struck a chord in my heart and I want to respond to them, just this seems to be a touchy subject and don't want to offend anyone and you definitely seemed to be offended...

No one's trying to take away your free agency, only trying to add to the joy you already know and experience in Christ...

Ok. I admit I do get a bit offended every time someone tries to be legalistic with religion. Or at least Christianity.

But it's because I know from personal experience the dangers of legalism....I know people who have turned away from Christ because of it (not turned toward Him)----and it makes my heart ache that your well-meaning intentions could actually do the opposite of what you want them to do.

I know you mean well, FFH. I don't question that. But it's so, so important to realize that what may not be ok for you, may be perfectly ok for someone else. Instead of saying playing cards, dice, and a million other things are evil, perhaps you should qualify that statement and say, "they are only evil to me." Otherwise you are encouraging legalism.

So I make my argument out of genuine concern, and out of a passion to see as few people as possible turn away from Christ simply because they cannot play cards, or do a million other harmless things. Because that's not what following Christ is about. It's not what you do that matters to God----it's the state of your heart. :)
 

FFH

Veteran Member
They did the same thing in the Book of Mormon, except they drew straws/twigs to see who would go first, when they needed to recover part of the record of their"fathers"/scripture/brass plates from a wicked ruler, Laban, before leaving Jerusalem forever, never to return again, before traveling to the "new world"/"promised land"/the American continent.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
No, they hold people bound in extremely subtle ways, almost/complelely unnoticeable to the one afflicted. Sometimes it take another pointing out the chans/chords in another's life...

There are many "tricks" used by those in oppositon to God's plan of happiness, which hold us bound to this world...

All forms of entertainment/media can be used for good. TV, radio/music, computers/internet, DVD's, video games, board and card games, etc...

Of course they are also used by those who oppose the works of God in this world...

In this life, our "Joy is not full," as Christ revealed to Joseph Smith, but we can make it a peaceful life by doing/avoiding certain things.

This has been my main goal in life, to make a peaceful life for myself...

My mind is clear...my heart is full, but this has not always been the case. I've experienced an empty feeling heart, it's aweful and a tormented/cluttered mind...

"Peace beyond understanding"

I heard this spoken to my mind several days ago..

Is this not what we're all striving for ?????

I have also experienced, "joy unspeakable" for a few seconds. It's worth fighting for by "enduring" this life for sure..


There was a lot of blah blah blah in that post, but you didn't answer the question. If forms of entertainment may be used for good or evil, why are playing cards different?
 

The Great Architect

Active Member
It was a combination/culmination of various things, not any one thing in particular, which led up to that point. The feelings of flames in my body and especially in my head got very very intense, at their worst, and became all consuming. Sleep came as a relief for a few hours each night, at the peak of this brief period in my life, I could not sleep inside, for some reason, and spent many nights outside sleeping under the stars in the month of August of 2006, then as I awoke it started again as I stepped inside my small one bedroom apartment. I vividly remember the worst night, falling asleep late into the night, inside the apartment, about 4 am to the sound of very loud lightenings, which seemed to be the anger of God and angels battling demons on my behalf. I heard the spirit whisper, "why will ye lay down and die???" very vividly....

I was choosing not to make any choices, that's the only way I can describe my rebellion against God.

God would rather we be black or white....

The teaching on this is very clear...and plainly written out in scripture...

I was choosing not to decide or make any decisions and was willing to just lay down and die. I would not eat...the flames got pretty intense and I cried out to my wife and said, "I feel like my head is on fire".

She freaked out a bit and could not handle being around me..

It seemed to spread throughout my body and began to cleanse me of all that was bothering me....

I'm grateful for the experience. This is only a brief description. What led to that is a bit more involved, basically I had been unable to work for a year, due to a motorcycle accident and did not want to and could not go back to the job I had before, due to my injury and was running out of money to support myself and was contemplating giving up everything I owned and living on the street rather than going back to my old job or any job for that matter. My wife finally called a few neighbors to come over and give me a blessing for my physical and spirtual recovery, so I could get back to work...

After two seperate blessings, one from my Elder's quorum president (LDS men's organization) and one from the Bishop (leader) of my ward (church organizanition) as well as some great conversations with them both, I was able to get back to work and am currently at the same job I've had for 18 years and making more money than I've ever made there in my life so far, which isn't much, but it's twice the amount that I need to survive/live on..

God is good and he can use the flames of hell to cleanse our souls and redeem us from that aweful place...

We will all eventually be redeemed from that aweful place after we have been cleansed "every wit".

I've also experience the extreme isolation that is found in hell, about 20 years earlier while walking the streets of Yokohama, Japan as an LDS missionary. Something transformed my mind and I was allowed to slip into the spirit world all around us and feel the isolated feelings of those around me who were in a hell of sorts....and I've also seen a demon flash before my face for a second, saw him vividly, very perfect beautiful face, as all spirits, good or evil have perfect looking spirit bodies, and felt his exptreme despair and torment. It's horrible and only they (demons/Satan's angels) will spend eternity there with Satan. None of us will ever spend an eternity there, according to LDS doctrine.

I will probably move this to another thread as an opening post...

So mods don't worry, I'll move this okay ????
thank you for your response! Actually, I didn't think you would respond. I don't know why.

I like you, mate. I will be honest and say that I don't agree with everything you say, but that doesn't matter. You stand up for what you believe in, and try to make it as understandable as possible.

Well done, God unites us both!:yes:
 

Hope

Princesinha
Were lots associated with gambling ???

It was a civil way to decide who should do or receive whatever.

Like flipping a coin. Is that evil ??? NO !!

They flipped a coin/cast lots to decide who would keep Jesus' garment for instance...

"Gambling" is actually just a fancier way of saying "taking a chance." Casting lots, flipping coins, throwing dice.....they're all about chance, all about gambling. Nothing inherently wrong with any of them. At least, not according to Scripture.

The only reason "gambling" as you mean it is considered wrong is because it refers to an addiction based on love of money. If I go buy a lottery ticket tomorrow, am I sinning? No. But if I waste my money buying lottery tickets every single day, then, yes, I have a problem. Or if I go to casinos all the time, or play poker all the time. Then I have a problem, and the gambling becomes sin. Because it shows I have let a love of money control me. There is absolutely nothing wrong with gambling in its strictest sense. It's only when it's abused that it becomes wrong. The same with most addictions. Sex isn't wrong is it? No, but sex addiction is. Alcohol isn't bad, is it? No, but becoming an alcoholic is. See my point?
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Ok. I admit I do get a bit offended every time someone tries to be legalistic with religion. Or at least Christianity.

But it's because I know from personal experience the dangers of legalism....I know people who have turned away from Christ because of it (not turned toward Him)----and it makes my heart ache that your well-meaning intentions could actually do the opposite of what you want them to do.
This isn't legalism, legalism says don't eat pork, it's against the Levitical law, which was fulfilled in Christ's atonement, but this does not include Poker cards and dice, they are tools of the gambling industry, let it be used for that purpose only, not in our homes...

Do I keep idols in my home, simply because I like them ??? No, and they are unclean and we should rid them from our homes. In Japan nearly everybody had mini Shinto shrines in their homes, in which they had pictures of their ancestors placed and food, especially fruit, placed in front of their pictures daily, with incense burning and prayers offered..

This was offensive to the Lord, according to revelations given to the LDS church and all LDS members were required to rid their homes of these mine Shinot shrines...

The shrines were not evil in and of themselves, but it's what they represented an unhealthy dedication to the dead, prayers and food offered to them as if they were that particualar person's god..

God is a "jealous" (not in the earthly fleshly sense which we know) god, there is a better word I think, just can't think of it now, but that's the way scriptures describe it/him concerning this issue, and he requires our total worship and all our prayers be directed towards himself only and none other.

This is not legalism, it's getting rid of all things which draw our minds away from the things of God and onto the things of this world.

Our minds should be heaven centered, not bound to this temporal earth..

We need to keep our eyes on the prize, not on the earthly things of this world..

I know you mean well, FFH. I don't question that. But it's so, so important to realize that what may not be ok for you, may be perfectly ok for someone else. Instead of saying playing cards, dice, and a million other things are evil, perhaps you should qualify that statement and say, "they are only evil to me." Otherwise you are encouraging legalism.
No, they are also offensive to God, of this I know for a fact...

The spirit has whispered strongly to my mind about this over and over and over, almost more so than other things. It's like an entry way into a much much much darker world of sin, like fornication, adultry, drugs, smoking, drinking, gambling etc., which destroy soooo many lives...

I see it time and time again with soooo many people I work with. I feel helpless to warn/stop them from messing up their lives..

One guy I work with just called me up in despair, he has just gotten his girlfriend pregnant, he hadn't told anyone yet and he needed someone to talk to about it. I reassured him everything would be okay...

But nothing it seemed could calm him down or make him feel better. He's totally totally stressed now and I felt helpless to warn him before this happened.

I keep my mouth shut 99 percent of the time, which I should, but many times I would hope i could warn/help another by helping them see the destructive path they were on..

I won't keep silent if I feel I must say something..If I feel it will help in any way or that someone might need to hear what I say..

I make no apologies for what I've said here.

Ignore me if you need to...

So I make my argument out of genuine concern, and out of a passion to see as few people as possible turn away from Christ simply because they cannot play cards, or do a million other harmless things. Because that's not what following Christ is about. It's not what you do that matters to God----it's the state of your heart. :)
I disagree, we will be judged for "deeds done while in the body," which are outward signs of our true hearts intentions...

"By their fruits ye shall know them".

The state of one's heart can be determined by their actions. Their actions give them away every time...

A hearing impaired young girl came into the place where I work Saturday night and I got chills. I mentioned this to another and said I don't know why it is but whenever hearing impaired children come into the place where I work, I get chills.

I vividly remember a large group of very young kids came into a restaurant where I used to work and it was an amazing experience. Instead of yelling and screaming there was a "deafening silence," hands flying everywhere.

Chills ran throughout my being and it seemed as if I was in a heavenly place...

I asked a customer why it was that I might be feeling this.. She said, "it's because you have a heart".

I had never looked at it that way..

I do have a heart for those I see suffering in any way, whether in body or in spirit...
 

FFH

Veteran Member
thank you for your response! Actually, I didn't think you would respond. I don't know why.

I like you, mate. I will be honest and say that I don't agree with everything you say, but that doesn't matter. You stand up for what you believe in, and try to make it as understandable as possible.

Well done, God unites us both!:yes:
Amen and God bless you, hope to see you continue to post more here in the future..

Peace...

God is real
 

FFH

Veteran Member
"Gambling" is actually just a fancier way of saying "taking a chance." Casting lots, flipping coins, throwing dice.....they're all about chance, all about gambling. Nothing inherently wrong with any of them. At least, not according to Scripture.

The only reason "gambling" as you mean it is considered wrong is because it refers to an addiction based on love of money. If I go buy a lottery ticket tomorrow, am I sinning? No. But if I waste my money buying lottery tickets every single day, then, yes, I have a problem. Or if I go to casinos all the time, or play poker all the time. Then I have a problem, and the gambling becomes sin. Because it shows I have let a love of money control me. There is absolutely nothing wrong with gambling in its strictest sense. It's only when it's abused that it becomes wrong. The same with most addictions. Sex isn't wrong is it? No, but sex addiction is. Alcohol isn't bad, is it? No, but becoming an alcoholic is. See my point?
Jesus taught in this matter should we pray, "...thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..."

Will poker cards and dice be a part of heaven, will lottery tickets be a part of heaven, absolutely not.

God is the source of our joy and everything we need. He (Christ) will be the "fountain of life," whereby the "living waters will flow," in the New Jerusalem, which will miraculously come down out of heaven and be established on this American continent very soon...

All worldly things will be abolished and Christ alone will be the source of all we could ever need or want..

I've felt this incredible source of power, love, joy and strength, it's as if one is in need of nothing and nothing we can do can do, in and of ourselves, can bring about this joy, but only by the complete obedience to God and his teachings..

Gambling shows to God that we don't trust him for all we need and want...

Poker cards and dice are used in the gambling industry and remind us of those evil industries.

It's simply no good to have them in our homes, that's all..
 
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