Are Religions and Gods manmade?

[CG Didymus]

Saying more religions will appear is like saying it will rain sometime soon.

A true Messiah will know the problem and the solutions to the problems we are facing.

A huge reduction in the Earth's population.
A huge reduction in Man's consumption.
A huge reduction in the destruction of natural resources.

Climate change is partly natural and partly Man's doing in my opinion. But it's happening and we have to tailor our world to accommodate it.

Yes. So let's believe the Christians. Over population? No problem... Jesus and God send plagues and wars to kill all but one third of the people. Problem solved. For the Baha'is to answer... Has this happened yet? No. Does Christ come before or after this happens? This is an open book test, so you can look in Revelation to see the answer. Hint, it is after.

The last two Jesus takes care of too. God and the Lamb, I assume the Lamb is Jesus, are the light of the world. A crystal clear river runs through town. The streets are made of gold and precious stones. I don't think people need anything. All they have to do is worship God and Jesus all day and all their needs are met. So why worry. God has got it taken care of. The old Earth will be burned up and a new Earth will replace it. God is so good... and not at all vague or confusing about what he's going to do.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Embrace the new one and essentially get rid of the old ones. Baha'is have said things like they are no longer relevant... they are abrogated... They had their spring and summer and are now in their winter. But when we look at the way a religion is practiced and believed today, it has no resemblance of what Baha'is say about God. So Baha'is add in that all the religions have become filled with misinterpretations and added traditions. By doing that a Baha'i can deny anything about any religion and still come back and pretend that all religions "original" all taught about the one true Baha'i version of God.

The Messenger is never abrogated CG, they are manifested again in the New Message. It is the Law of the age that is abrogated.

Baptisim and the Eucharist was abrogated by Muhammad and a new way given, to accept Christ was now found in submission to God in the new Law.

It is all about our choices to find the Light from where it shines.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sure. Let's do it. What do we know that is true today... not something from a 1000 years ago or even a hundred years ago.

How to do it is your choice CG. I am not here to change your choices, just offer what I see is a reliable source of good choices.

So if there's problems, we can't just leave those religions behind and say... "Games over. The Baha'i Faith is it. It is the new perfect

You most likely have to ask people that accept Baha'u'llah if they left their Faith behind, I would suggest they would offer they have not.

Most would offer they found fulfilment of their Faith and as such, have embraced it in its entirety.

All your questions seem to indicated one forgets the past Manifestations. How can that be so, when the Messageof Baha'u'llah embraces them all and acknowledges they are all of God and that no Bahai can say any Messenger is more important than another, they are all part of the whole.

Many past laws are not now applicable, some have been upheld.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hmmm? I thought it's been a couple hundred years of people finally being able to openly question the phony myths and practices of religious people. Baha'is tell me Jesus in not in a wafer that priests give to their followers. Baha'is tell me that we shouldn't confess our sins to priests. Baha'is tell me that Jesus' body is dead... that no way did he come back to life. Baha'is tell me there is no Satan, the devil. Baha'is tell me that Jesus is not God.... And on and on.

When it comes to the gods of other religions, Baha'is are very much in agreement with most all atheists.

If that is the way you wish to see it CG, then I can only say that is not how I see it and it has never been the way I have discussed those topics with you.

I see you often impart your doubts into what you say the Baha'i offer.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's a "winner"? How "toxic" has religion been? Atheism has been a positive reaction to bad religion. Will the Baha'i Faith be any better?

The toxic part to me is my choice to participate in such soul destroying exchanges.

If I make the choice not to participate, then I do not turn on the tap to further toxic replies.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Again, which prophecies did Baha'u'llah say he fulfilled and which ones did Bill Sears or other Baha'is say he fulfilled?

And what else? Wasn't it something about don't be fooled that there will be wars and rumors of wars but that is not yet the end?

Not. Going there again CG. If you are interested, then it is all yours to pursue. There is a truckload of books available.

I am just finishing Prisoner and the Kings again by William Sears. It is a good read.

I was surprised to find an inaccurate statement in that book. I am also surprised this mistake has not been corrected. But since he passed in 1992, maybe it can not be?

Regards Tony

 

[Bird123]

That the Messengers truly got a message from God is not something that can be proven as a fact. How could such a claim be verified and proven?

hat the Messengers truly got a message from God is not something that can be proven as a fact. How could su

That is a huge claim. What evidence do you have to back up a claim that you have interacted with God? Why should anyone believe you?

So now you have the Truth from God and you know that the messages from Messengers are not true?

No, I cannot conceive of that because there is no reason to believe anyone else ever got messages from God. What was their Mission? Where are their scriptures?

I am confronting you and asking you for proof to support your claims. How does that help me?

But you expect me to blindly accept that you had interaction with the Almighty God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth? Do you understand what you are asking me to believe, with no evidence?

Did I ever suggest never leaving home? Did I ever suggest we never live life? However, in case you have not noticed there is a pandemic affecting the entire world, so going out to Discover things is not what we are supposed to be doing right now. Do you live in a box? Don't you see what is going on all over the world?

You still have not explained to me or anyone else on this forum how they can Discover God for themselves. To say we can see God's actions is not an answer because what we see in this world are not God's actions, they are the actions of humans. God rules and sustains the universe but He does not act or interact in this world. God gave man free will so man could manage this world. We are like chess pieces on a chess board that God created, moving around at will.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

yourquote:That the Messengers truly got a message from God is not something that can be proven as a fact.
My Answer: First you say messengers getting messages can not be proven as fact, then you say if you investigate it can. You can't have it both ways. Something is either a fact or it isn't.

your quote:So now you have the Truth from God and you know that the messages from Messengers are not true?
My Answer: I Discovered that answer before God came to visit. God just confirmed what I Discovered. Messengers value some of those petty things mankind holds so dear. That is not God.

your quote:I am confronting you and asking you for proof to support your claims.
My Answer: I have pointed you in a direction by which you can Discover the answers for yourself, yet you want everything served up on a silver platter so you can accept and believe. Haven't you got it by now? I don't want anybody accepting and believing. I want Discovery of facts never beliefs.

your quote:You still have not explained to me or anyone else on this forum how they can Discover God for themselves.
My Answer: That is all that I have been doing. Clearly, you just do not understand.

your quote:But you expect me to blindly accept that you had interaction with the Almighty God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth?
My Answer:I simply place truth in the world. What you do with truth is entirely up to you. I have no expectations or demands of you.

your quote:However, in case you have not noticed there is a pandemic affecting the entire world, so going out to Discover things is not what we are supposed to be doing right now.
MyAnswer:Excuses,excuses, they are a dime a dozen. One who seeks will always have a million questions: Why did God allow the pandemic? Why does God allow people to Die? Why do people go hungry? Why does God allow religions that are not true? WHY?WHY?WHY??? I think you have accepted way too long. You have no drive to KNOW.

your quote:You still have not explained to me or anyone else on this forum how they can Discover God for themselves. To say we can see God's actions is not an answer because what we see in this world are not God's actions, they are the actions of humans.
My Answer:When one has discovered enough and really understand God and what God is doing with this world, God will visit you. First, you must already know, then you get your visit. To do things differently would be to intimidate your choices and actions. God isn't going to do that. If I am capable of finding God, everyone is. On the other hand, it does take a lot of work getting there.

If you can not see any of God's actions then your view is too narrow. So much knowledge exists beyond the surface. Start with those millions of questions that one who seeks will have. Put the puzzle together. Everything about God will add up. That is something no one can say about their religion.

your quote:God rules and sustains the universe but He does not act or interact in this world. God gave man free will so man could manage this world. We are like chess pieces on a chess board that God created, moving around at will.
My Answer: You really have no clue at all. Remember, any Being capable of creating the universe has to be very very smart. You are going to have to Stretch into Advanced Thinking with a Wide view if you are ever a hope of understanding. Knowledge exists beyond your feeling and believing.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Bahaullah failed to see the problems we face today, so doesn't have a solution. The problems he saw are problems Man has always faced. We didn't start wars in the 19th century which is all he worried about. Coming up with lots of solutions to one problem.

Baha'u'llah foresaw the problems we have today and there are solutions to them embedded in His Writings.

Climate change and destruction of the world resources can't be changed by science.

But they have to be addressed by science as well as government.

One of the reasons for having many children is the way society worked in many places and in ours a few centuries ago. People worked the land in a very poor productive way, this has been the norm for 1,000s of years and required a lot of manual labour. Plus death rates were very much higher.

Modern farming requires fewer people, disease kills less, but people still keep believing in more children. It only requires 1 couple to produce 2-3 children to eventually to overpopulate the Earth. Start producing 4-6 and overpopulation, consumption, destruction of the Earth is the problem.

Data Center: International Indicators – Population Reference Bureau

So what's your solution to overpopulation, limiting the number of children people can have? How would that be accomplished?

 

[Trailblazer]

Not things that were told in the past because they are easily fore filled. What the Messenger says about the future. Bahaullah fails to do that concentrating on problems of the past.

Show me where Baha'u'llah ever concentrated on the problems of the past. Concerning what we should focus on, this is what He wrote..

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.

We can well perceive how the whole human race is encompassed with great, with incalculable afflictions. We see it languishing on its bed of sickness, sore-tried and disillusioned. They that are intoxicated by self-conceit have interposed themselves between it and the Divine and infallible Physician. Witness how they have entangled all men, themselves included, in the mesh of their devices. They can neither discover the cause of the disease, nor have they any knowledge of the remedy. They have conceived the straight to be crooked, and have imagined their friend an enemy.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213

Bird123 shows how easy it is to claim a message from god.

That is true, but he has no mission or scriptures or religion that was established in his name, so why should anyone believe he heard from God?

 

[Trailblazer]

Okay, where else? What did Buddha say about God? What did Krishna say about God? What did Zoroaster say about God?

I don't know, but that is in the past, and we have a new Revelation from God, so what would it matter what was said in the past?

 

[Trailblazer]

So if there's problems, we can't just leave those religions behind and say... "Games over. The Baha'i Faith is it.

We can say that if we want to leave the past where it belongs, in the past. As far as I am concerned the game is over, because all the dispensations of the past have been abrogated by the Revelation of Baha'u'llah.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

That means by an arrangement of God the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is now according to the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, not according to any of the older religions.

It really is quite simple. Every time God sends a new Messenger (Manifestation), His Revelation supersedes all the Revelations that have come before it. A Dispensation is the divine ordering of the affairs of the world, and that can be only according to one Manifestation at a time. Once a Manifestation of God has completed His Mission on earth and revealed scriptures, what He revealed is pertinent only until the next Manifestation of God appears; and then He completes His Mission and His scriptures are pertinent until the next Manifestation of God appears.

But of course you are not a Baha'i so I do not expect you to see it that way.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's a "winner"? How "toxic" has religion been? Atheism has been a positive reaction to bad religion.

I fully agree and I do not see atheists as toxic. They are just people who cannot believe in those old abrogated religions, and sadly they employ the fallacy of hasty generalization so they cannot see how it is possible for the Baha'i Faith to be any different.

Will the Baha'i Faith be any better?

It already is, but people who look at everything with dark glasses cannot see the Light.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

And we cannot really do that unless we leave the past behind.

I would love it if religion would do this. Leave behind the old Millenium troubles of wars and face the new problems we face. Sadly no religion comes close to doing that.

Bahaullah thought of one problem, Man warring amongst themselves. He put forward lots of impossible ways to solve the problem. The problem goes back to before Man started farming, so not new.

Today we have small wars and one huge problem. With many root causes, overpopulation, consumption, destruction of the Earth's resources and climate change. Bahaullah says nothing of this as he talks about an age-old problem.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Baha'u'llah foresaw the problems we have today and there are solutions to them embedded in His Writings.

But they have to be addressed by science as well as government.

So what's your solution to overpopulation, limiting the number of children people can have? How would that be accomplished?

So what does he say about Climate Change, Populations, consumption, destruction of the Earth's resources?

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Baha'u'llah foresaw the problems we have today and there are solutions to them embedded in His Writings.

But they have to be addressed by science as well as government.

So what's your solution to overpopulation, limiting the number of children people can have? How would that be accomplished?

There is nothing in his writings concerning the above. His only worry was Man killing each other, nothing new in that. His solutions were equally impossible. How do you think they will be accomplished? Don't say a new race of men because it's not happening.

I told you the only solution is to limit the number of children being born, got any better ideas?

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Show me where Baha'u'llah ever concentrated on the problems of the past. Concerning what we should focus on, this is what He wrote..

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.

We can well perceive how the whole human race is encompassed with great, with incalculable afflictions. We see it languishing on its bed of sickness, sore-tried and disillusioned. They that are intoxicated by self-conceit have interposed themselves between it and the Divine and infallible Physician. Witness how they have entangled all men, themselves included, in the mesh of their devices. They can neither discover the cause of the disease, nor have they any knowledge of the remedy. They have conceived the straight to be crooked, and have imagined their friend an enemy.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213

That is true, but he has no mission or scriptures or religion that was established in his name, so why should anyone believe he heard from God?

He was obsessed by Men killing each other in wars and other conflicts. Or are you saying he doesn't want us to stop killing each other?

 

[Trailblazer]

I would love it if religion would do this. Leave behind the old Millenium troubles of wars and face the new problems we face. Sadly no religion comes close to doing that.

The Baha'i Faith does, but unfortunately, we are a very small group, compared to all the larger religions that are controlling the world by holding political positions. As long as people continue to hold beliefs that are outdated and no longer pertain to today's world there will be a disjunction between thought and action.

Bahaullah thought of one problem, Man warring amongst themselves. He put forward lots of impossible ways to solve the problem. The problem goes back to before Man started farming, so not new.

Disunity is not the only problem He addressed but as long as that problem exists the other problems cannot be addressed..

Today we have small wars and one huge problem. With many root causes, overpopulation, consumption, destruction of the Earth's resources and climate change. Bahaullah says nothing of this as he talks about an age-old problem.

These problems have to be solved by educated people working together in unity so the principles of Baha'u'llah such as universal education and the unity of mankind did address these problems. It is up to people to put these principles on place and there is no magic bullet solution. The world did not get this way overnight so there is no reason to believe that these problems will be solved overnight.

 

[Trailblazer]

So what does he say about Climate Change, Populations, consumption, destruction of the Earth's resources?

To my knowledge, He does not address those directly. Why would a Messenger of God address such problems?

However, the Baha'is are addressing them by putting the Bahai principles on place.

For example, here are some articles on climate change:
You searched for climate change on BahaiTeachings.org

 

[Trailblazer]

I told you the only solution is to limit the number of children being born, got any better ideas?

I am all for that, but how do you think it can be done?

 

[Trailblazer]

He was obsessed by Men killing each other in wars and other conflicts. Or are you saying he doesn't want us to stop killing each other?

I am not saying that peace was not an issue he addressed, but that is certainly not all He wrote about.
He wrote about many other things such as.....

• The oneness of God.
• The oneness of humanity.
• The oneness of religion.
• Religion as a school.
• Equality of women and men.
• Harmony of religion and science.
• Universal compulsory education.
• Universal auxiliary language.

Bahá'í teachings - Wikipedia