Are Rosaries another lie

[SigurdReginson]

That's what I'm asking. And who says, I mean knows, if who they're praying to is listening?

Well... I don't know the answer to that, honestly. There's been times in the past where I thought I had answers to prayers. In retrospect, though, it could have just been a chance occurrence that fed into my own confirmation bias. That's kind of on another tangent/topic, though.

I'm kind of confused by the relevancy of your point, though. Maybe you could unpack it for me.

 

[SigurdReginson]

It's kinda hard to have two tenets that clash with each other and then say both may be true.

That's true enough; not without utilizing tactics such as "explaining things away" or outright intellectual dishonesty when experiencing that cognitive dissonance. That's the trick, though. All that stuff is subjective, and it's a product of the way we process our life experiences.

Question, though... What tenets are you referring to?

 

[YoursTrue]

That's true enough; not without utilizing tactics such as "explaining things away" or outright intellectual dishonesty when experiencing that cognitive dissonance. That's the trick, though. All that stuff is subjective, and it's a product of the way we process our life experiences.

Question, though... What tenets are you referring to?

One idea (tenet) is that Krishna or other gods like that hear and answer prayers. Or that the soul migrates to another being upon death, either a good animal I suppose or a bad animal. While some teachings say that Mary hears prayers, and other teachings say that God is the hearer of prayer and prayers should be directed to him, not to saints, including who is known as the "Mother of God." Or that some of those gods I suppose will curse a person after death and torment them forever. So yes, based on what I know and what I see about the various religions, I would say in short, it's quite interesting.

 

[YoursTrue]

Well... I don't know the answer to that, honestly. There's been times in the past where I thought I had answers to prayers. In retrospect, though, it could have just been a chance occurrence that fed into my own confirmation bias. That's kind of on another tangent/topic, though.

I'm kind of confused by the relevancy of your point, though. Maybe you could unpack it for me.

OK, if prayers with rosaries of any sort are heard by (how many gods) God, then really it could be said anything goes. So who or what is the director? Or is there a director?

 

[SigurdReginson]

OK, if prayers with rosaries of any sort are heard by (how many gods) God, then really it could be said anything goes. So who or what is the director? Or is there a director?

Well, when you direct your prayers to god, are you directing your prayers to other gods? Why would it be any different if you used prayer beads in your prayers?

If the way we pray matters, why do people pray before every meal? That's not in the bible, as far as I'm aware. Does god only accept certain prayers if they are done in one very specific (culturally acceptable) way, or does god listen to prayers because people are simply communicating with him and trying to foster that relationship with him?

I'm reminded of Psalm 100...

"100 Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all ye lands.

2 Serve the Lord with gladness: come before his presence with singing.

3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

5 For the Lord is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations."

Does god not listen if someone sings quietly? Does he not listen if people sing in Arabic, Hindi, or in some other cultural way that's understood by them? Does he not listen when someone sings in a way that's not the accepted norm? It seems to me that god could cut through that and know what's in the person's mind and heart.

Joyful noise... That noise doesn't have to sound good or acceptable to the human ear, just to god's. I don't see how prayer would be any different, but then again, I'm just an atheist.

 

[SigurdReginson]

One idea (tenet) is that Krishna or other gods like that hear and answer prayers. Or that the soul migrates to another being upon death, either a good animal I suppose or a bad animal. While some teachings say that Mary hears prayers, and other teachings say that God is the hearer of prayer and prayers should be directed to him, not to saints, including who is known as the "Mother of God." Or that some of those gods I suppose will curse a person after death and torment them forever. So yes, based on what I know and what I see about the various religions, I would say in short, it's quite interesting.

Hmm... Where are the contradictions in those, though? I've never been a Hindu or a Catholic, so I can't really comment to that from my experiences. I'm pretty ignorant in those regards.

 

[YoursTrue]

Well, when you direct your prayers to god, are you directing your prayers to other gods? Why would it be any different if you used prayer beads in your prayers?

If the way we pray matters, why do people pray before every meal? That's not in the bible, as far as I'm aware. Does god only accept certain prayers if they are done in one very specific (culturally acceptable) way, or does god listen to prayers because people are simply communicating with him and trying to foster that relationship with him?

I'm reminded of Psalm 100...

"100 Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all ye lands.

2 Serve the Lord with gladness: come before his presence with singing.

3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

5 For the Lord is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations."

Does god not listen if someone sings quietly? Does he not listen if people sing in Arabic, Hindi, or in some other cultural way that's understood by them? Does he not listen when someone sings in a way that's not the accepted norm? It seems to me that god could cut through that and know what's in the person's mind and heart.

Joyful noise... That noise doesn't have to sound good or acceptable to the human ear, just to god's. I don't see how prayer would be any different, but then again, I'm just an atheist.

1. When the Israelites were in the wilderness, Did Jehovah tell them it's ok to listen to other gods around them? Let's just say these other nations didn't believe in the God of Moses either. It's an interesting story, and by that I mean historical record. Thanks for bringing it up. Nothing about prayer beads either.

 

[YoursTrue]

Well, when you direct your prayers to god, are you directing your prayers to other gods? Why would it be any different if you used prayer beads in your prayers?

If the way we pray matters, why do people pray before every meal? That's not in the bible, as far as I'm aware. Does god only accept certain prayers if they are done in one very specific (culturally acceptable) way, or does god listen to prayers because people are simply communicating with him and trying to foster that relationship with him?

I'm reminded of Psalm 100...

"100 Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all ye lands.

2 Serve the Lord with gladness: come before his presence with singing.

3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

5 For the Lord is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations."

Does god not listen if someone sings quietly? Does he not listen if people sing in Arabic, Hindi, or in some other cultural way that's understood by them? Does he not listen when someone sings in a way that's not the accepted norm? It seems to me that god could cut through that and know what's in the person's mind and heart.

Joyful noise... That noise doesn't have to sound good or acceptable to the human ear, just to god's. I don't see how prayer would be any different, but then again, I'm just an atheist.

Again, while it might be a stretch then for you to consider this, the Israelites were warned to have no other gods before them. And on that note, I'm going to sign off for now. Good night.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Seems to me the attention is on the beads not on God.

The origins of the rosary are "sketchy" at best. The use of "prayer beads" and the repeated recitation of prayers to aid in meditation stem from the earliest days of the Church and has roots in pre-Christian times. The History of the Rosary (catholiceducation.org)

I was under the impression God hated all things of pagan origins.

How? If you took a set of beads, any, and prayed to God how does the beads invalidate your prayer depending on repetitions and origin of the beads and not the intention of the prayer?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Rosaries:
When I was a child they used to be ubiquitous, in some countries they still are.

They are used mainly by Catholic devotees to mechanically tell a prayer upon each bead.

There never was any question in my mind as to their origin, everyone "knew" it was of Catholic origin, even the Pope was wearing one. And everyone knew that to use one in prayer was a sign of piety and a sure way for our prayers to be heard.

But that is a lie.

Because the fact is, that it was not introduced by the papacy , and is not supported by the bible.
Rather it is an old instrument of pagan worship.

The Rosaries was used as a sacred instrument among the ancient Mexicans.
It is commonly employed among the Brahmans of Hindustan.
In Tibet it has been used since time immemorial.
It was used in China, in Asiatic Greece and in Pagan Rome.

With the Rosaries the mechanical and mindless repetition of prayer and incantations is introduced, another Pagan practice.


Do you think this practice is in direct contradiction to Jesus words (Mat6:7) and a hindrance to the need of approaching God with clear mind and heart ?
Or rather do you agree with the practice of using instruments such as the rosary to attract God's attention.

I thought the rosary was to remind the believer. This is the first I have heard that it was to attract God's attention. Is that correct?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I was under the impression God hated all things of pagan origins.

That would be awkward since He was originally from a pagan pantheon.

 

[Glaurung]

Seems to me the attention is on the beads not on God.

The attention is on prescribed sets of biblical scenes called mysteries on which you are meant to mediate as you recite the prayers. The beads serve as a tracking mechanism.

The origins of the rosary are "sketchy" at best. The use of "prayer beads" and the repeated recitation of prayers to aid in meditation stem from the earliest days of the Church and has roots in pre-Christian times

Prayer is a fundamental impulse of religion. So we should expect to see shared forms. Catholics and Hindus may both use prayer beads, but that does not make the Rosary a Hindu prayer. After all, in its prayers the Rosary addresses the Blessed Virgin, Our Lord and the Blessed Trinity. (The Hail Mary, the Hail Holy Queen, the Our Father, the Glory Be and the Fatima Prayer).

I was under the impression God hated all things of pagan origins.

That pagans performed animal sacrifice did not stop God from demanding it in the Law of Moses. The issue is that you're conflating form with substance. The Rosary is not of pagan origin, it is of Catholic origin. All its prayers are Catholic. That the idea of prayer beads also exists in non-Christian religions means nothing as far as the Rosary is concerned.

 

[InChrist]

Rosaries:
When I was a child they used to be ubiquitous, in some countries they still are.

They are used mainly by Catholic devotees to mechanically tell a prayer upon each bead.

There never was any question in my mind as to their origin, everyone "knew" it was of Catholic origin, even the Pope was wearing one. And everyone knew that to use one in prayer was a sign of piety and a sure way for our prayers to be heard.

But that is a lie.

Because the fact is, that it was not introduced by the papacy , and is not supported by the bible.
Rather it is an old instrument of pagan worship.

The Rosaries was used as a sacred instrument among the ancient Mexicans.
It is commonly employed among the Brahmans of Hindustan.
In Tibet it has been used since time immemorial.
It was used in China, in Asiatic Greece and in Pagan Rome.

With the Rosaries the mechanical and mindless repetition of prayer and incantations is introduced, another Pagan practice.


Do you think this practice is in direct contradiction to Jesus words (Mat6:7) and a hindrance to the need of approaching God with clear mind and heart ?
Or rather do you agree with the practice of using instruments such as the rosary to attract God's attention.

As a former Catholic, I now feel saying the rosary is just a mechanical, repetitious ritual, rather than actually communication with God. The Catholic Church seems to a have a history of incorporating pagan practices.

 

[Rival]

As a former Catholic, I now feel saying the rosary is just a mechanical, repetitious ritual, rather than actually communication with God. The Catholic Church seems to a have a history of incorporating pagan practices.

Pagans also pray.

Pagans also have holidays.

Pagans also have ideas of sacred and profane.

So? Some if not many religious ideas are found across the spectrum. You're not just going to stop praying or celebrating holidays because Pagans do and did before Christianity existed.

 

[InChrist]

Pagans also pray.

Pagans also have holidays.

Pagans also have ideas of sacred and profane.

So? Some if not many religious ideas are found across the spectrum. You're not just going to stop praying or celebrating holidays because Pagans do and did before Christianity existed.

Of course not and that’s not my point. You are certainly correct that paganism has pretty much touched everything. So my perspective isn’t that just because something has been used by pagans, it’s off limits. Rather, does the practice directly conflict with the scriptures, and/or what is the intended purpose or motive of a given practice? Most importantly, does it honor and bring glory to God.
I think saying the rosary fails in each area, 1) because Jesus said not to pray vain repetitions as the heathen, and 2) because repeating words overs and over again is not honest respectful or real communication.
Who would ever talk like that to someone they loved and cared for? God desires real personal and thoughtful communication.

 

[Neuropteron]

The Rosary concerns the mysteries of the birth, death resurrection of Jesus.

The Annunciation

The Visitation

The Nativity

The Presentation

The finding of Jesus in the Temple


Glorious Mysteries

Resurrection, Ascension, descent of the Holy Spirit


Sorrowful Mysteries

The agony in the garden

The scourging at the pillar

The crowing with thorns

Carrying of the cross

The Crucifixion

Do you see anything there that is unbiblical?

Hi,
Just the mindless repetition of "any" creed and the use of a pagan artifact.
Jesus taught us how to pray. there is no mention of using beads to pray with.

The Rosary is of pagan origin and no Christian prior to 1000 AD used beads to pray.

 

[Neuropteron]

I thought the rosary was to remind the believer. This is the first I have heard that it was to attract God's attention. Is that correct?

Prayer do not need to be memorized since they should not be a mental exercise. As such
A person that prays to God from the hearth does not need a reminder, since he is offering God his innermost thanks and concerns.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Prayer do not need to be memorized since they should not be a mental exercise. As such
A person that prays to God from the hearth does not need a reminder, since he is offering God his innermost thanks and concerns.

So it isn't to attract God's attention. Wasn't even sure what that was supposed to mean.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Using any object, such as beads or statues or candles, to pray makes me think of two things. 1. You have to get God's attention before he can hear you pray. or 2. You have to repeat a pray many times before God will hear it. I think both these ideas are wrong. If God cannt hear you unless you do something to get his attention and you repeat your prayer many times, then you are praying to the wrong God.

 

[Rival]

Using any object, such as beads or statues or candles, to pray makes me think of two things. 1. You have to get God's attention before he can hear you pray. or 2. You have to repeat a pray many times before God will hear it. I think both these ideas are wrong. If God cannt hear you unless you do something to get his attention and you repeat your prayer many times, then you are praying to the wrong God.

Or it just creates an atmosphere conductive to prayer.