Are science and spirituality compatible?

[Gambit]

Yes. That's 12.b, as I've already referenced.

Then anything that is nonphysical would qualify as supernatural (which literally means "beyond the natural") since you defined the natural as the physical.

 

[Gambit]

I think you're missing my point. People can have various kinds of spiritual or meditative experiences and then make all kinds of assumptions about what they mean, based on existing beliefs or wishful thinking. I'm saying that the experiences themselves have validity but the assumptions are just speculation, going beyond empiricism.

I didn't miss your point, but you are missing my point. There are people who are making metaphysical assumptions about consciousness because they are wedded to scientific materialism. There is no scientific evidence that consciousness is physical (and there can't be, not even in theory).

 

[shawn001]

I think Albert Einstein must have been a Mystic, he saw what we call God in everything, but I don't think he believed in God as a personified figure, or organized religion.

Albert Einstein's religious views have been studied extensively. He said he believed in the "pantheistic" God of Baruch Spinoza, but not in a personal god, a belief he criticized. He also called himself an agnostic, while disassociating himself from the label atheist, preferring, he said, "an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being".[1][2]

"
Einstein used many labels to describe his religious views, including "agnostic",[4] "religious nonbeliever"[5] and a "pantheistic"[6] believer in "Spinoza's God."[7]

Personal god and the afterlife[edit]
Einstein expressed his skepticism regarding an anthropomorphic deity, often describing it as "naïve" and "childlike". He stated, "It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I feel also not able to imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly. I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem—the most important of all human problems."[8]

On 22 March 1954 Einstein received a letter from Joseph Dispentiere, an Italian immigrant who had worked as an experimental machinist in New Jersey. Dispentiere had declared himself an atheist and was disappointed by a news report which had cast Einstein as conventionally religious. Einstein replied on 24 March 1954:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it"

Religious views of Albert Einstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[shawn001]

I didn't miss your point, but you are missing my point. There are people who are making metaphysical assumptions about consciousness because they are wedded to scientific materialism. There is no scientific evidence that consciousness is physical (and there can't be, not even in theory).

"There is no scientific evidence that consciousness is physical "

Yes there is you just don't personally know about it or have studied it in depth, you have so many ideas about neuroscience wrong its totally amazing.


There is no scientific evidence that consciousness is NON physical. Consciousness obeys the laws of nature and in fact arose through evolution by the laws of nature.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I didn't miss your point, but you are missing my point. There are people who are making metaphysical assumptions about consciousness because they are wedded to scientific materialism. There is no scientific evidence that consciousness is physical (and there can't be, not even in theory).

Evidence from neuroscience shows that consciousness is intimately related to electro-chemical activity in the brain. There is no evidence that consciousness can exist independently of brain activity.

The people making metaphysical assumptions are those who introduce religious beliefs about consciousness, for example the idea of consciousness being able to exist independently, or ideas about universal consciousness.

 

[psychoslice]

Albert Einstein's religious views have been studied extensively. He said he believed in the "pantheistic" God of Baruch Spinoza, but not in a personal god, a belief he criticized. He also called himself an agnostic, while disassociating himself from the label atheist, preferring, he said, "an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being".[1][2]

"
Einstein used many labels to describe his religious views, including "agnostic",[4] "religious nonbeliever"[5] and a "pantheistic"[6] believer in "Spinoza's God."[7]

Personal god and the afterlife[edit]
Einstein expressed his skepticism regarding an anthropomorphic deity, often describing it as "naïve" and "childlike". He stated, "It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I feel also not able to imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly. I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem—the most important of all human problems."[8]

On 22 March 1954 Einstein received a letter from Joseph Dispentiere, an Italian immigrant who had worked as an experimental machinist in New Jersey. Dispentiere had declared himself an atheist and was disappointed by a news report which had cast Einstein as conventionally religious. Einstein replied on 24 March 1954:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it"

Religious views of Albert Einstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hey, thanks for that info, great stuff, yea I knew he didn't believe in the childish personal god belief, I think he was overwhelmed with all that is out there, he had no words for it, so hence his language that sounded like the religious language, but wasn't, it was the best way he could but words to all that was.

 

[shawn001]

Hey, thanks for that info, great stuff, yea I knew he didn't believe in the childish personal god belief, I think he was overwhelmed with all that is out there, he had no words for it, so hence his language that sounded like the religious language, but wasn't, it was the best way he could but words to all that was.

Einstein, didn't like being called religious or believing in God although not an atheist either. Because he was honest with the question and didn't know.

But he believe in Nature and the laws of nature which of course he helped figure out and the beauty of it all, through science and the works of others before him, some who were religious.

Of course he made the quote "God does not play with dice" because he had issues with QM physics, which he thought was a blunder and turned out not to be, actually turned out to be one of the strongest theories in science.

In less than 100 seconds, Martin Archer explains why Einstein was uncomfortable with some of the philosophical implications of quantum mechanics.

Why did Einstein say 'God doesn't play dice'? - physicsworld.com

 

[psychoslice]

Einstein, didn't like being called religious or believing in God although not an atheist either. Because he was honest with the question and didn't know.

But he believe in Nature and the laws of nature which of course he helped figure out and the beauty of it all, through science and the works of others before him, some who were religious.

Of course he made the quote "God does not play with dice" because he had issues with QM physics, which he thought was a blunder and turned out not to be, actually turned out to be one of the strongest theories in science.

In less than 100 seconds, Martin Archer explains why Einstein was uncomfortable with some of the philosophical implications of quantum mechanics.

Why did Einstein say 'God doesn't play dice'? - physicsworld.com

Wow, great stuff, he certainly was an interesting man that's for sure.

 

[shawn001]

Yes he was a brilliant man and still testing his ideas and theories and most of them are still working fine.

Here is a little more I think you'll find interesting.

"
Einstein's Famous Quote About Science and Religion Didn't Mean What You Were Taught
The scientist actually offers no solace to believers

Einstein Quote About Religion and Science Was Wrong, Misinterpreted | The New Republic

 

[jonathan180iq]

Then anything that is nonphysical would qualify as supernatural (which literally means "beyond the natural") since you defined the natural as the physical.

And?

 

[Unification]

Are science and spirituality compatible?

They need each other for truth.

 

[Gambit]

And?

So, you're denying the reality of the nonphysical.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So, you're denying the reality of the nonphysical.

Could you give some examples of what you mean by "non-physical"?

 

[psychoslice]

Could you give some examples of what you mean by "non-physical"?

Just what I was going to ask.

 

[Gambit]

Could you give some examples of what you mean by "non-physical"?

Consciousness, logic, mathematical abstractions, transcendental verities (good, beauty, truth), etc.

 

[Sapiens]

So, you're denying the reality of the nonphysical.

The basic question is: " is there is a reality to the question of the nonphysical?" I suggest to you that it "exists" only in the imagination of some.

 

[Bunyip]

I didn't miss your point, but you are missing my point. There are people who are making metaphysical assumptions about consciousness because they are wedded to scientific materialism. There is no scientific evidence that consciousness is physical (and there can't be, not even in theory).

There is scientific evidence that consciousness is a product of the physical, but saying "there is no scientific evidence that suggests consciousness is physical" is just pointing out the obvious - consciousness is an abstract, not a physical object.

Where you are going wrong is in that you falsely imagine that materialism posits consciousness to be physical, it doesn't.
Within materialism consciousness is non-physical, it is a product of the physical.