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Are some more protective of their concept of Hell than Heaven?

ThirtyThree

ThirtyThree

Well-Known Member
David1967 said:
In various discussions I have had over the years with people about their concepts of Heaven and Hell I have noticed something interesting. Keep in mind that most of those I have had this discussion with are from a more Christian fundamentalist background.
When discussing concepts of Heaven there was much room for friendly discussion. Some had the streets of gold in the clouds view. Some had an opinion that Heaven would be a perfect world with beautiful mountains sparkling rivers and no sadness or death. Many different views from different people. No contention among any of them on these differing thoughts of a heavenly paradise. But when I brought up the subject of whether or not there was fire in hell, all of a sudden the mood changed to defensive. Has anyone else had this experience where people seemed to be more protective of their concept of Hell than Heaven? If so why do you think this is so?
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It is a weird and almost disturbing thing but I tend to defend Hell more than my own religion. I also notice what you have brought forward. Most I meet, whether they are Traditionalists, Annihilationists, Conditionalists or Universalists or even those weird Christians who believe in reincarnation, they all defend their Hell or lack of it with fervor.
 
David1967

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Akivah said:
Not that I'm aware of.

There are the people that call themselves "Messianic Judaism" that believe in Eternal Hell, but they are actually a branch of Christianity, not Judaism.
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I have noticed that in the Old Testament there is hardly an afterlife mentioned and certainly no eternal fire. It just seems odd that such a place would have been left out by the prophets if real. Do the scriptures of Judaism contain the same books as the Old Testament in the Christian Bible?
 
Kilgore Trout

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
David1967 said:
In various discussions I have had over the years with people about their concepts of Heaven and Hell I have noticed something interesting. Keep in mind that most of those I have had this discussion with are from a more Christian fundamentalist background.
When discussing concepts of Heaven there was much room for friendly discussion. Some had the streets of gold in the clouds view. Some had an opinion that Heaven would be a perfect world with beautiful mountains sparkling rivers and no sadness or death. Many different views from different people. No contention among any of them on these differing thoughts of a heavenly paradise. But when I brought up the subject of whether or not there was fire in hell, all of a sudden the mood changed to defensive. Has anyone else had this experience where people seemed to be more protective of their concept of Hell than Heaven? If so why do you think this is so?
Click to expand...

I've seen probably hundreds of depictions of hell over the years in movies, tv shows, cartoons, art, etc., and virtually all of them included fire. It's just like Jesus being white - if he wasn't, then why would millions of bibles, churches, and paintings all included depictions of him as white?
 
David1967

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Kilgore Trout said:
I've seen probably hundreds of depictions of hell over the years in movies, tv shows, cartoons, art, etc., and virtually all of them included fire. It's just like Jesus being white - if he wasn't, then why would millions of bibles, churches, and paintings all included depictions of him as white?
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Picture of an artist impression of what Jesus most probably looked like.

th
 
Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
David1967 said:
I have noticed that in the Old Testament there is hardly an afterlife mentioned and certainly no eternal fire. It just seems odd that such a place would have been left out by the prophets if real. Do the scriptures of Judaism contain the same books as the Old Testament in the Christian Bible?
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I assume that @Akivah is specifically referring to the eternal nature of hell that is not present in Judaism.
A temporary hell does exist in Judaism and there are a number of Talmudic and Midrashic passages about it. So orthodox Judaism does believe in a concept of hell.
 
David1967

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Tumah said:
I assume that @Akivah is specifically referring to the eternal nature of hell that is not present in Judaism.
A temporary hell does exist in Judaism and there are a number of Talmudic and Midrashic passages about it. So orthodox Judaism does believe in a concept of hell.
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Thank you. I am not familiar with Judaism's teaching on this subject so anything you can offer is much appreciated. What is the nature of this temporary hell?
 
Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
David1967 said:
Thank you. I am not familiar with Judaism's teaching on this subject so anything you can offer is much appreciated. What is the nature of this temporary hell?
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We believe that suffering is how blemishes from sin are removed from the soul. So hell, is basically that on steroids: a place of extreme suffering to refine the soul of its impurities, so that it can move on to something like what you call Heaven. Its considered somewhat of a positive process in that one has to merit to go through that process. If one doesn't, one can either end up back on earth with the possibility of messing up even more or to be chased around the world as a soul by angels of destruction for an indeterminate amount of time until a merit is found. Its those latter types of souls that are responsible for what you call "demonic possession".
 
David1967

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Tumah said:
We believe that suffering is how blemishes from sin are removed from the soul. So hell, is basically that on steroids: a place of extreme suffering to refine the soul of its impurities, so that it can move on to something like what you call Heaven. Its considered somewhat of a positive process in that one has to merit to go through that process. If one doesn't, one can either end up back on earth with the possibility of messing up even more or to be chased around the world as a soul by angels of destruction for an indeterminate amount of time until a merit is found. Its those latter types of souls that are responsible for what you call "demonic possession".
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Thank you Tumah. I am really interested to know more. Can you recommend any website or books that go in depth?
 
ThirtyThree

ThirtyThree

Well-Known Member
Tumah said:
We believe that suffering is how blemishes from sin are removed from the soul. So hell, is basically that on steroids: a place of extreme suffering to refine the soul of its impurities, so that it can move on to something like what you call Heaven. Its considered somewhat of a positive process in that one has to merit to go through that process. If one doesn't, one can either end up back on earth with the possibility of messing up even more or to be chased around the world as a soul by angels of destruction for an indeterminate amount of time until a merit is found. Its those latter types of souls that are responsible for what you call "demonic possession".
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That is a unique view and I enjoy it. Thank you.
 
Ingledsva

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Thana said:
What if they're not telling you that you're going to hell, they just believe in it's existence?
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This board is the only place I have had a few modern Christians tell me they don't believe in the torture Hell idea.

In all real life situations where Christians have talked about hell with me, they have told me that if I don't believe in, and follow their God, I will be tortured forever in Hell.

*
 
Ingledsva

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Tumah said:
I assume that @Akivah is specifically referring to the eternal nature of hell that is not present in Judaism.
A temporary hell does exist in Judaism and there are a number of Talmudic and Midrashic passages about it. So orthodox Judaism does believe in a concept of hell.
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But when did that belief get added into Judaism?

It is not in Tanakh.

*
 
David1967

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Ingledsva said:
This board is the only place I have had a few modern Christians tell me they don't believe in the torture Hell idea.

In all real life situations where Christians have talked about hell with me, they have told me that if I don't believe in, and follow their God, I will be tortured forever in Hell.

*
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Some do,some don't. It depends a lot on what denomination the person is who is talking to you. The more fundamentalist, the angrier God is.
 
Akivah

Akivah

Well-Known Member
David1967 said:
Thank you. I am not familiar with Judaism's teaching on this subject so anything you can offer is much appreciated. What is the nature of this temporary hell?
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Note that there is a lot of variability of Jewish opinion on the afterlife. I think most would agree that a temporary place of punishment exists. We have to face all of our sins, that is a hell in itself. The maximum duration is one year. Then everyone goes on to Heaven.
 
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