Are the physical forms of God real?

[Aupmanyav]

Well, as you would surmise, various sects and even individuals will have their own view. On one hand is Sri Madhvacharya of the Dvaita (duality) and the Vedic schools, who will say that the Gods and Goddesses are absolutely real, at the other end of the spectrum is Sri Adi Sankara and the advaitists, who will say that Brahman appears in the form of Gods and Goddesses in the lower level of reality, the pragmatic one (Vyavaharika - as for normal day to day use).

 

[Terese]

Well, as you would surmise, various sects and even individuals will have their own view. On one hand is Sri Madhvacharya of the Dvaita (duality) and the Vedic schools, who will say that the Gods and Goddesses are absolutely real, at the other end of the spectrum is Sri Adi Sankara and the advaitists, who will say that Brahman appears in the form of Gods and Goddesses in the lower level of reality, the pragmatic one (Vyavaharika - as for normal day to day use).

But they (Brahman's forms) have appeared on earth? or is it allegorical?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Oh yes, according to the view I follow, Brahman is all around the universe to see. Whatever one is perceving is all Brahman. Nothing allegorical about it. Many of the respected Upanishads are very clear about that. That is why they have sayings like 'Sarvam khalu idam Brahma' (all things here are Brahman), 'Eko sad, Dwiteeyo nasti' (what exists is one, there is no second), 'Ayamatma Brahman' (This self is Brahman), 'Tat twam asi' (that is what you are). In my view even Caliph Ibrahim, Kim Jong-un and Robert Mugabe also are none other than Brahman because no other thing even exists. Advaitists make no exceptions. Advaita is a very simple, straight-forward philosophy.

 

[Terese]

Oh yes, according to the view I follow, Brahman is all around the universe to see. Whatever one is perceving is all Brahman. Nothing allegorical about it. Many of the respected Upanishads are very clear about that. That is why they have sayings like 'Sarvam khalu idam Brahma' (all things here are Brahman), 'Eko sad, Dwiteeyo nasti' (what exists is one, there is no second), 'Ayamatma Brahman' (This self is Brahman), 'Tat twam asi' (that is what you are). In my view even Caliph Ibrahim, Kim Jong-un and Robert Mugabe also are none other than Brahman because no other thing even exists. Advaitists make no exceptions.

Of course i believe Brahman is all around us, not at all allegorical, but i mean like this:

This is why i made this thread. Brahman is absolutely real. But forms of Brahman appearing on earth? I know this question is unnecessary, as Hindu belief does not depend on this, but i'm curious. i have not met God yet. Through voice or action.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I have not met God yet.

It takes time and effort, Terese. You are too much in a hurry. But let me inform you that I have met all Gods and Goddesses, they are my close friends and always in communication. And, of course, each one of them is superb.

 

[Terese]

thank you Aup
I must ask though, Why are you an atheist if you have met all?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I accept Brahman, that is why. I am an advaitist atheist (following non-duality, in which there cannot be a human and a God, two different things).
You see, how simple!

 

[Terese]

I accept Brahman, that is why. I am an advaitist atheist (following non-duality, in which there cannot be a human and a God, two different things).
You see, how simple!

I see! But is Brahman not God? I remember you saying you describe Brahman as all-encompassing energy. is this right?

 

[Chakra]

Brahman's body is not physical, it is made of pure spirit (or consciousness, whatever you want to call it. Pure Sattva).

 

[Aupmanyav]

I do not know about Brahman's body, but whatever I perceive is Brahman, material or non-material. Sure, Brahman is not a God (for me), it is the substrate which constitutes the universe and all things contained in it. But most people will have views different from me. Well, they must have their own reasons.

 

[LostKiera]

I must admit I struggle a bit with this concept in Hinduism. As far as I can gather one could hold any of the beliefs below and still be regarded a Vaishnava:
1. Vishnu and Brahman are interchangeable names for everything
2. Vishnu is the greatest manifestation of Brahman
3. Vishnu is a representation of the greatest aspect of Brahman but there isn't really any entity Vishnu
So if I've got that right, the second group are the only ones wo believe that there is an entity Vishnu separate from say you and me. Am I on the right lines?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I must admit I struggle a bit with this concept in Hinduism. As far as I can gather one could hold any of the beliefs below and still be regarded a Vaishnava:
1. Vishnu and Brahman are interchangeable names for everything
2. Vishnu is the greatest manifestation of Brahman
3. Vishnu is a representation of the greatest aspect of Brahman but there isn't really any entity Vishnu
So if I've got that right, the second group are the only ones who believe that there is an entity Vishnu separate from say you and me. Am I on the right lines?

1. For a Shaiva, Shiva is Brahman. For a Shakta, the Mother Goddess is the creatrix. There are other views also.
2. Again Shaivas and Shaktas believe differently about Supreme Manifestation.
3. Oh yes, Vsihnu is a (Supernatural being) and so are Shiva and the Mother Goddess.

Here again, there are different views.
1. Followers of Sri Madhvacharya (Dvaita philosophy) say Vishnu/Krishna is separate from us.
2. Followers of Sri Ramanujacharya (Vishishta Advaita) say Vishnu is the same as you and me but there is a qualified difference.
3. Followers of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (Hare-Krishnas) say Vishnu/Krishna is the same as you and me but the similarity and difference are indescribable (Achintya Bheda Abheda Advaita).
4. Followers of Sri Nimbarkacharya (Dvaita Advaita) say that though Vishnu is the same as you and me, but the difference is that Vishnu is independent where as we are dependent on Vishnu/Krishna.
5. Followers of Sri Vallabhacharya (Shuddha Advaita) say that Vishnu/Krishna is the same as you and me. But that we are in ignorance, and the ignorance can be removed by only grace of God.

Advaita of Sri Sankaracharya says there is only one, call him by any name, know him in any form. And that is not the end of sects in Hinduism who all live side-by-side with each other. There may be differences between the views of two members of one family and it would not surprise us.
Basically, Hinduism gives a whole lot of freedom to formulate one's views (it is not that there are no limits but the expanse is very large). Others may not agree with one's views but they are expected to respect a person's freedom in the matter of beliefs. We are guided by the saying 'Eko sad, Vipra bahudha vadanti' (The truth is one, but noble people describe it variously).

I think, once you accept this, Hinduism will be easier to understand.

 

[LostKiera]

Thanks Aup, you always explain things so clearly

 

[Terese]

Brahman's body is not physical, it is made of pure spirit (or consciousness, whatever you want to call it. Pure Sattva).

Yes, you are absolutely right. I am talking about God's physical manifestation like Vishnu's blue form.

 

[kalyan]

I must admit I struggle a bit with this concept in Hinduism. As far as I can gather one could hold any of the beliefs below and still be regarded a Vaishnava:
1. Vishnu and Brahman are interchangeable names for everything
2. Vishnu is the greatest manifestation of Brahman
3. Vishnu is a representation of the greatest aspect of Brahman but there isn't really any entity Vishnu
So if I've got that right, the second group are the only ones wo believe that there is an entity Vishnu separate from say you and me. Am I on the right lines?

Vishnu is supreme as per supreme authority vedas...the supreme brahman is Vishnu himself no less...you and me and everything in this world is related because Vishnu exists as substratum in absolutely everything!

 

[kalyan]

1. For a Shaiva, Shiva is Brahman. For a Shakta, the Mother Goddess is the creatrix. There are other views also.
2. Again Shaivas and Shaktas believe differently about Supreme Manifestation.
3. Oh yes, Vsihnu is a (Supernatural being) and so are Shiva and the Mother Goddess.

Here again, there are different views.
1. Followers of Sri Madhvacharya (Dvaita philosophy) say Vishnu/Krishna is separate from us.
2. Followers of Sri Ramanujacharya (Vishishta Advaita) say Vishnu is the same as you and me but there is a qualified difference.
3. Followers of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (Hare-Krishnas) say Vishnu/Krishna is the same as you and me but the similarity and difference are indescribable (Achintya Bheda Abheda Advaita).
4. Followers of Sri Nimbarkacharya (Dvaita Advaita) say that though Vishnu is the same as you and me, but the difference is that Vishnu is independent where as we are dependent on Vishnu/Krishna.
5. Followers of Sri Vallabhacharya (Shuddha Advaita) say that Vishnu/Krishna is the same as you and me. But that we are in ignorance, and the ignorance can be removed by only grace of God.

Advaita of Sri Sankaracharya says there is only one, call him by any name, know him in any form. And that is not the end of sects in Hinduism who all live side-by-side with each other. There may be differences between the views of two members of one family and it would not surprise us.
Basically, Hinduism gives a whole lot of freedom to formulate one's views (it is not that there are no limits but the expanse is very large). Others may not agree with one's views but they are expected to respect a person's freedom in the matter of beliefs. We are guided by the saying 'Eko sad, Vipra bahudha vadanti' (The truth is one, but noble people describe it variously).

I think, once you accept this, Hinduism will be easier to understand.

This post is ur opinion...The stance on VA u gave is absurd

 

[GoodbyeDave]

If I may trespass here, and consider the original question, when a God manifests to a human they must do so in some way, in some form. Naturally, they will appear in a form which their worshiper will recognise, out of kindness. A Goddess once told a Greek "bodies have been attached to our self-revealed appearances for your sakes."

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Terese ji

Well, as you would surmise, various sects and even individuals will have their own view. On one hand is Sri Madhvacharya of the Dvaita (duality) and the Vedic schools, who will say that the Gods and Goddesses are absolutely real, at the other end of the spectrum is Sri Adi Sankara and the advaitists, who will say that Brahman appears in the form of Gods and Goddesses in the lower level of reality, the pragmatic one (Vyavaharika - as for normal day to day use).

yes , also you know tht a Gudiya Vaisnava will say that Brahman is the efulgence , ....therefore behind that efulgence there must be a supreme being from which this efulgence eminates , ....much in the same way that the sun emits rays , and allthough those rays radiating from the sun provide a life giving force , there must still be a resplendent sun from which they shine .

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Aupmanyav ji

It takes time and effort, Terese. You are too much in a hurry. But let me inform you that I have met all Gods and Goddesses, they are my close friends and always in communication. And, of course, each one of them is superb.

effort ? ........what about devotion ? ....

maybe some effort is needed to purify the mind and remove ahamkara , ....?

but dev ji I am glad you have metand know their splendor , ..

 

[Aupmanyav]

@LostKiera, @Terese, so one may ask with all these differences, how does Hinduism keep an even keel?
What helps Hinduism keep an even keel is 'dharma', one' duty, social rules. What should a person do and what he/she should not do. A precise description of that is in Srimad Bhagawat Gita in Chapter 15, verse 1-3:

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead (Lord Krishna in case of Gita) said: Fearlessness; purification of one's existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-control; performance of sacrifice; study of the Vedas; austerity; simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger; renunciation; tranquillity; aversion to faultfinding; compassion for all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and freedom from envy and from the passion for honor - these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature."

This post is ur opinion...The stance on VA u gave is absurd

In what way, Kalyan?