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Are there any Religious Beliefs that are Psychological Escapes from Reality?

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
Are you suggesting that all religious beliefs and practices are beliefs and practices about gods or goddesses? Are there not thousands of religious beliefs and practices that have little or nothing to do with deities?

Good point.

Buddhist and Jain religious beliefs don't involve gods. In fact, in their purest elaboration, they explicitly deny divinity.

But they still help people to face reality in this life, with equanimity and "enlightenment".

Even in theistic religions, one finds emphases that have little substantively to do with God but consist of simple ethical or practical injunctions, such as this little gem attributed to Saint Seraphim of Sarov:

Acquire a peaceful spirit and then thousands of others around you will be saved
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
@Sunstone if I might add just another two quotations from Meister Eckhart's sermons:

This is the true inner detachment: in it, the spirit stands immovable in the face of everything that befalls it, whether it is good or bad, honor or disgrace or calumny, just as a broad mountain stands immovable in the face of a little breeze....

There is nothing a person is able to offer God that is more pleasing to him than this kind of detachment. God cares less for our watching, fasting, or praying than for this detachment. God needs nothing more from us than a quiet heart.

No one must imagine that it is impossible to attain this...

It demands hard work and great dedication and a clear perception of our inner life and an alert, true, thoughtful and authentic knowledge of what the mind is turned towards in the midst of people and things.

This cannot be learned by taking flight, that is by fleeing from things and physically withdrawing to a place of solitude, but rather we must learn to maintain an inner solitude regardless of where we are or who we are with
.
(Walshe, 2008; Davies, 1994, Talks of Instruction 6)


To me, this epitomizes "reality-embracing" religion. And its the state of mind contemplative prayer fosters i.e. as Meister Eckhart also said:


The most powerful prayer, one wellnigh omnipotent, and the worthiest work of all is the outcome of a quiet mind. The quieter it is the more powerful, the worthier, the deeper, the more telling and more perfect the prayer is. To the quiet mind all things are possible. What is a quiet mind? A quiet mind is one which nothing weighs on, nothing worries, which, free from ties and from all self-seeking, is wholly merged into the will of God and dead to its own.
  • As translated in A Dazzling Darkness: An Anthology of Western Mysticism (1985) by Patrick Grant
 
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SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I think many do both, sometimes at the same time. For instance the "goal" I guess in a lot of Dharmic religions is to literally escape reality. To transcend this existence and realise one's true self. Thus breaking the cycle and coming to a different state of being. This can help people cope with reality as well as offering an escape.
You could interpret a lot of saviour based faiths doing the same, in a sense.
Offering a sort of light at the end of the tunnel that may comfort the believer. They may even retreat into such a belief in order to cope with reality, believing that with worship and acceptance of a saviour they will end up in a much better existence later on.
This can also be used to justify reality, seeing disasters or "bad events" as divine retribution, God's plan or even a divine test.

I guess like everything it's how you use it and interpret your own beliefs which determines whether you shrink back from reality or face it head on.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Some religious realities are worse than actual reality. Such as accept, believe, conform, or face everlasting punishment in Hell.

When I found out religion isn't reality, it was a day at the beach. I loved it.

The worst thing about reality is ceasing to exist, unbearable pain, or going against your conscience. Once you no longer fear those things, reality is adventurous. And at worst reality is tormenting if you suffer from unbearable pain. But it's still far better than the religions I was subjected to. Talk about misery, and pressure, geesh!
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Do you think there are any religious beliefs and/or practices that are psychological escapes from reality*?
Any religion promising blissful life after death is offering the living a psychological escape from the reality of grieving.

Any religion that encourages ecstasy or visions through magic shrooms, mescaline, and so on is offering escape from reality.

As for the bonus question, I have no personal view on what churches ought to teach. But if they were to teach decency and inclusion, those are values I affirm.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
"The average person can only stand ten minutes of reality at a time." -- T.S.Eliot (paraphrased)

Do you think there are any religious beliefs and/or practices that are psychological escapes from reality*? If so, what are those beliefs and/or practices? In what way(s) are they escapes from reality?

Do you think there are any religious beliefs and/or practices that compel, force, or at least encourage people to face reality? If so, what are those beliefs and/or practices? In what way(s) do they force, etc people to face reality?


_____________________
*Now I know that some of you will want to ask for my definition of "reality" here. But pleased quash the impulse to ask because I am not at all interested in imposing my definition of reality on this thread. Instead, I ask that you use your own definition of reality, and that you make clear -- either explicitly, or through context -- what you mean by it. Thanks!


BONUS QUESTIONS: Should a religion, among other things, help people to cope with reality? Does helping people to cope with reality necessarily mean helping people to face reality? Can a religion help people to cope with reality by facilitating their psychological escape from reality? Why or why not?

The escape would be from personal reality which is a perception and yes I believe that religion is designed to detach you from your personal reality and either land you in a religious reality or ground you in reality. Prayer, Meditation, Mass pathways to religious reality a god greater than you providing for you. Confession, Volunteerism, Abstinence,ways of grounding you in reality your life is no different from others and others are as worthy as you.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
"The average person can only stand ten minutes of reality at a time." -- T.S.Eliot (paraphrased)

Do you think there are any religious beliefs and/or practices that are psychological escapes from reality*? If so, what are those beliefs and/or practices? In what way(s) are they escapes from reality?


While that disqualifies the doctrine from being a religion by my understanding, there are certainly those who do that and claim to be religions. Sometimes that is the whole point.

Afterlife beliefs are among the most obvious examples.

Do you think there are any religious beliefs and/or practices that compel, force, or at least encourage people to face reality? If so, what are those beliefs and/or practices? In what way(s) do they force, etc people to face reality?

Shamata / Vipassana / Zazen are in essence the practice of training the mind to reconcile awareness with serenity, so yes.

BONUS QUESTIONS: Should a religion, among other things, help people to cope with reality?

Sure, if it is to deserve any respect.

Does helping people to cope with reality necessarily mean helping people to face reality?

I would hope so!

Can a religion help people to cope with reality by facilitating their psychological escape from reality? Why or why not?

Perhaps very circunstancially. Ultimately, though, running away is indeed running away. It makes people more fragile and scared, not more courageous.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
I think the Bible reveals the reality and damaging impact of sin in one's own personal life and in this world along with the need for something outside ourselves, a loving Savior, to provide a remedy. The Bible and Jesus as the Savoir do not offer escape, but peace through a transformed life now and hope for a much better future eternal life.
 
Do you think there are any religious beliefs and/or practices that are psychological escapes from reality*? If so, what are those beliefs and/or practices? In what way(s) are they escapes from reality?

Yes. Pretty much all of them.

Not just religion though, the majority of culture is psychological escape from reality.

We construct narratives to make meaning of a senseless world to give us purpose and direction. Ultimately, we are just animals though with no greater purpose than giraffes or octopuses.

I'm working on the basis that reality = objectively true, and also that 'escaping from reality' has no intrinsically pejorative connotations. With another definition of reality, that which is perceived and meaningful, I'd pretty much have the opposite answer.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
A lot of this has to do with the uprise of New Age beliefs being promoted by Oprah and most of the popular lifestyle media. When this occurred it was promoted as a way to replace traditional religion and later on when Atheism got over its angry phase you saw it try to seep into secular communities. New Age spirituality ended up becoming as a catchall for all sorts of things and never having anything substantially concrete or relevant to human well being.

During this whole debacle you see people like Ravi Shankar and even Prabhupada's thoughts circulating around in the movement and it just transforms into this Westernized form of pseudo Dharma. It goes nowhere and achieves nothing and adds nothing to the theological pool.

New Age spirituality is more like the result of a corporation making up its own religion and branding it with consumer products that cater to special needs but lacks the actual sympathy and depth of a specialist. Watered down religion essentially with no principles at all as the ethical component of religion is removed from it completely.

. . . . I just had to delete half of what I said as I began rambling like a drunkard again :D
New ageism led to a lot fuzzy thinking in undisciplined aficionados trying to find alternate workable realities.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
"The average person can only stand ten minutes of reality at a time." -- T.S.Eliot (paraphrased)

Do you think there are any religious beliefs and/or practices that are psychological escapes from reality*? If so, what are those beliefs and/or practices? In what way(s) are they escapes from reality?

Do you think there are any religious beliefs and/or practices that compel, force, or at least encourage people to face reality? If so, what are those beliefs and/or practices? In what way(s) do they force, etc people to face reality?


_____________________
*Now I know that some of you will want to ask for my definition of "reality" here. But pleased quash the impulse to ask because I am not at all interested in imposing my definition of reality on this thread. Instead, I ask that you use your own definition of reality, and that you make clear -- either explicitly, or through context -- what you mean by it. Thanks!


BONUS QUESTIONS: Should a religion, among other things, help people to cope with reality? Does helping people to cope with reality necessarily mean helping people to face reality? Can a religion help people to cope with reality by facilitating their psychological escape from reality? Why or why not?
And if it works, what's the problem with it?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Do you think there are any religious beliefs and/or practices that are psychological escapes from reality*? If so, what are those beliefs and/or practices? In what way(s) are they escapes from reality?

Do you think there are any religious beliefs and/or practices that compel, force, or at least encourage people to face reality? If so, what are those beliefs and/or practices? In what way(s) do they force, etc people to face reality?
I think it all has much more to do with the individual response to reality that determines whether religious beliefs are used to escape reality, or to help further ground them in it. One only has to look at how some people choose to approach religion to see this distinction. Religion is not the defining factor.

Here's a great list I pulled together from something I read in one of Ken Wilber's books years ago I think bears directly on this. It has to do with the many different ways in which religion is viewed and practiced with a brief description from me of each. You'll see escapism listed in there, as well a transformative:

1. Religion as non-rational engagement:

- Deals with the non-rational aspects of existence such as faith, grace, etc.

2. Religion as meaningful or integrative engagement:

- A functional activity of seeking meaning, truth, integration, stability, etc.

3. Religion as an immortality project:

- A wishful, defensive, compensatory belief in order to assuage anxiety and fear

4. Religion as evolutionary growth:

- A more sophisticated concept that views history and evolution as a process towards self-realization, finding not so much an integration of current levels, but higher structures of truth towards a God-Realized Adaptation.

5. Religion as fixation and regression:

- A standard primitivization theory: religion is childish, illusion, myth.

6. Exoteric religion

- The outward aspects, belief systems to support faith. A non-esoteric religion. A potential predecessor to esoteric religion.

7. Esoteric religion

- The inward aspects of religious practices, either culminating in, or having a goal of mystical experience.

8. Legitimate religion:

- A system which provides meaningful integration of any given worldview or level. A legitimate supporting structure which allows productive functionality on that level, horizontally. The myth systems of the past can be called "legitimate" for their abilities to integrate. A crisis of legitimacy occurs when the symbols fail to integrate. This describes the failure of a myth's legitimacy we saw occur with the emergence of a new level of our conscious minds in the Enlightenment. Civil religion is one example of an attempt to provide legitimacy to this level, following the failure of the old legitimate system.

9. Authentic religion

- The relative degree of actual transformation delivered by a religion or worldview. This is on a vertical scale providing a means of reaching a higher level, as opposed to integrating the present level on a horizontal scale. It provides a means to transformation to higher levels, as opposed to integration of a present one.

BONUS QUESTIONS: Should a religion, among other things, help people to cope with reality?
Yes, most certainly.

Does helping people to cope with reality necessarily mean helping people to face reality?
I'd say most certainly again. The ultimate goal is to accept and integrate reality, not merely find temporary coping mechanisms to get you by.

Can a religion help people to cope with reality by facilitating their psychological escape from reality? Why or why not?
I don't think escapism helps in the long term. Sometimes, if it's too much to bear, a little temporary relief might be in order to quiet the storm. But the goal should be to rooted and grounded in your life, not detached from it.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
"The average person can only stand ten minutes of reality at a time." -- T.S.Eliot (paraphrased)

Do you think there are any religious beliefs and/or practices that are psychological escapes from reality*? If so, what are those beliefs and/or practices? In what way(s) are they escapes from reality?

Do you think there are any religious beliefs and/or practices that compel, force, or at least encourage people to face reality? If so, what are those beliefs and/or practices? In what way(s) do they force, etc people to face reality?


_____________________
*Now I know that some of you will want to ask for my definition of "reality" here. But pleased quash the impulse to ask because I am not at all interested in imposing my definition of reality on this thread. Instead, I ask that you use your own definition of reality, and that you make clear -- either explicitly, or through context -- what you mean by it. Thanks!


BONUS QUESTIONS: Should a religion, among other things, help people to cope with reality? Does helping people to cope with reality necessarily mean helping people to face reality? Can a religion help people to cope with reality by facilitating their psychological escape from reality? Why or why not?
TS Elliot was a devout Roman Catholic. I would say he optimistically over estimated.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Why is there, for so many people, a nearly automatic association of escapism with some negative value?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why is there, for so many people, a nearly automatic association of escapism with some negative value?
I would agree that escapism can have some positive effects, such as opening your creativity away from the cares of life. But persistent escapism as an avoidance of dealing with what you need to is negative. When it comes to religion, more specifically, spirituality, the goal is to be rooted and grounded, and not avoiding things. If all one does is sing praises to Jesus all day and avoid dealing with your own ****, then yes, it's very negative. That's abusing religion. Otherwise, if you just need to fall back into bliss and kiss the face of God once in awhile when stuff is crappy, go for it.
 

corynski

Reality First!
Premium Member
Are you suggesting that all religious beliefs and practices are beliefs and practices about gods or goddesses? Are there not thousands of religious beliefs and practices that have little or nothing to do with deities?
Sunstone: You'll have to tell me which "thousands" of religious beliefs you're referring to that don't refer to a deity, as I'm approaching the subject from the point of view of the "..... more than 20,000 beings... categorized into eight major groups: cosmogonical, celestial, atmospheric, terrestrial, life/death cycle and those concerned with economic activities, sociocultural concepts, and religion.", as presented in the book 'Guide to the Gods', by Marjorie Leach, 1992. She places the first of these around 60,000 B.C. I'm suggesting that since the beginning, anything that could not be 'explained' in simple cause and effect terms would be attributed to 'other worldly' origin, beginning with wind and water spirits, etc.
 

corynski

Reality First!
Premium Member
Why is there, for so many people, a nearly automatic association of escapism with some negative value?
Sunstone: Reality, to my mind, is where the rubber meets the road..... To 'be' means to exist which means to live by consuming some other part of existence. If you don't eat some other part of this existence, you don't survive, you go back to protons and electrons. Are you saying it's better to exist than to not exist? I likely don't understand your question.....
 

corynski

Reality First!
Premium Member
Sunstone: Regarding your 'bonus' question: BONUS QUESTIONS: Should a religion, among other things, help people to cope with reality?

Of course, that is a central purpose of any belief system, an attempt to reconcile appearance with non-appearance. Each group of humans attempts to understand and explain their environment in a way that is structured for their individual group.
 

corynski

Reality First!
Premium Member
Some religious beliefs help people "escape" from reality but others in my opinion fundamentally help them to "cope" with it and learn, in their own way, to face it.

In the latter instance, one can argue whether or not the beliefs and narratives are in themselves of any worth or significance, but the end result is still learning to accept harsh realities and live with them.

I don't personally view escaping and coping as synonyms.

Vouthon......... You say 'the end result is still learning to accept harsh realities.....', yes, but don't you think it is of any importance whether the beliefs are real or true or not? I'm sure it's very comforting to imagine going to a 'heaven', whether such a place exists or not, but I suggest that it would be more beneficial to pursue reality, rather than accept that which has dubious status as reality. Reality IS, whereas all the rest is guesswork without any 'ISNESS', which apparently makes little difference to many people. A solution may work, temporarily, whether it is real or not..... it can be accepted as part of the culture, but.... it reminds me of an old quip, 'How can we be friends, you burn your dead, we bury ours.' I think beliefs are the cause of actions, whereas one group of people are prepared to act upon their deities instructions to annihilate another group for lack of belief in the other groups cultural eccentricities.
As a footnote, may I suggest that because of the Bible, i.e. a story therein suggesting a 'god' gave some land to some people, that today we have a conflagration, a genocide, in Palestine. Where is the reality of anything going on in Palestine, where incidentally we as US taxpayers are supporting that genocide to the tune of $3 billion a year. Good grief.... may we not all please concentrate on REALITY?
 
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