Are there single fathers, who never married, with children in the West?

[savagewind]

Link?
And if you focus on the words "whatever it might be" we might now not be arguing about nothing. Whatever it might be includes arguments as they are abuse. Do you get it yet yet?

ARGUMENTS ARE NOT ABUSE. Can you hear me now?

 

[JoStories]

@paarsurrey
You seemed to be blaming me for women bringing children up by themselves (which at times will be the case) and I was answering that by saying they are on their own a lot now because of feminism. Feminist set out to destroy the family. The evidence is clear. Only people with modern day agenda will not accept this.

Provide this alleged 'evidence' or admit your claim is, at best, spurious.

 

[leibowde84]

Correct. Now let's argue about it

If you agree, how are we supposed to argue about it?

 

[Draka]

An argument is nothing but the vocalizations of disagreement. If I think that an actress looks better brunette and my hubby thinks she looks better blond and we each try to defend our side by using points and pictures and the like we have had an argument. It was not abusive. An argument, by sheer definition, is not abuse. Someone within an argumentative setting can turn abusive and start berating another and if they are the only ones doing so, especially within a domestic situation, then they are abusing the other and can be considered domestic abuse. If both get heated and are yelling at each other equally then it is a fight on even grounds and is therefore not abuse (mutually wrong and childish though it may be). If one gets upset about the fight and takes it to another level and physically attacks then they are the aggressor, and thus, the abuser.

 

[McBell]

Link?

Here you go:

' Abuse, whatever it might be, is not usually onesided.

And if you focus on the words "whatever it might be" we might now not be arguing about nothing. Whatever it might be includes arguments as they are abuse. Do you get it yet yet?

Yes I get it.
You are playing games with the word abuse.

 

[McBell]

Your comment would say the same to me about your attitudes towards men. But I have posted quotes on women who said they wanted to destroy the family. Ignore it as much as you want. But it is still true.

ah, so using your above logic we can generalize about Christianity by quoting Westboro Baptist Church, right?
And since we beleive the quotes from Westboro Baptist Church, they are not opinions, but facts?

Seems you have backed yourself into a rather embarrassing corner.
To bad you are completely unaware of how embarrassed you honestly should be.

 

[leibowde84]

@paarsurrey
You seemed to be blaming me for women bringing children up by themselves (which at times will be the case) and I was answering that by saying they are on their own a lot now because of feminism. Feminist set out to destroy the family. The evidence is clear. Only people with modern day agenda will not accept this.

Ignoring the evidence, and assuming your claim that "feminism set out to destroy the family" is accurate, how do you get from this to "mothers are on their own a lot now because of feminism"? You are missing a large part of reasoning here required to make it coherent. Where is your evidence that feminism succeeded in what you claim they set out to do and this is the cause of single mothers? It seems obvious that the actual cause of single mothers is lack of sexual education, poverty, lack of birth-control use, physical/emotional abuse from significant others, and religious teachings that women must bring every pregnancy to term. But, I am all ears.

 

[JoStories]

Speaking from the US, women often exploit men. Getting pregnant purposely then collecting child-support checks. I've personally seen this scenario a LOT. I know several women who continue to have children out of wedlock with different men so they can collect the full child support from each man. It's shameful.
I've also personally seen a lot of women refuse to let the fathers have contact with the children. Can't blame the men for that.
And as I said, I live in a conservative state where the courts will side with the mother unless it is clearly indicated that the mother cannot take care of her children. So maybe the fathers are trying to get custody of their kids but can't.
My sister's son was given to his father by the court because she was deemed unfit. And my cousin got custody of his son without having to go to court because the mother agreed to it.

One thing about the west, it's not one size fits all.

Let me provide another side to this. There are men who are known as reproductive abusers. They purposefully get women pregnant by pricking a hole in the condom. Or it 'falls off', most likely be removed by the man in the middle of coitus. And as a woman who had her children taken away from me by a the man who beat the merde out of me for years and then had the cahones to blame ME for my daughter's rape, you have no idea how many times this kind of thing has happened to women by men still walking on all fours and carrying a #E(*$(# club. Yes, what you write does happen but let's not make this all about how reprehensible all women are, or at least, that is how your post seems to paint women to be.

 

[leibowde84]

If you want, go ahead. Because if you recall, the debate since last year, has been about defining the word "abuse". And agressive arguments are abusive and therefore abuse. okay?
So most abuse is two way, because verbal assaults are abuse also. It is only your narrow view of the word that stops this debate going any further. We are not really arguing anything.

Aggressive arguments are not abuse, as they are not one-sided. There is no victim being taken advantage of, which is a requirement for abuse.

 

[JoStories]

This^^^
I've seen similar scenarios play out all too commonly.
Because women "have the power", in the USA, when it comes to child raising. Women can off their progeny if they want to, it doesn't matter what the father wants. And if they decide not to they can demand child support, doesn't matter what the father wants. They don't always get it, but the law is on their side.
Tom

As I just pointed out, that is not always the case.

 

[JoStories]

Back at you, my love. My point here is that fighting is natural in any relationship. It is going to happen from time to time. But, abuse should never be tolerated.

Exactly, I agree of course. I have read about 10 pages of this now and I cannot fathom someone doing so much back pedaling and at the same time, seeming to be so completely obtuse.

 

[columbus]

As I just pointed out, that is not always the case.

Which part?

I'm willing to stand by everything I said in my post.
Tom

 

[paarsurrey]

Speaking from the US, women often exploit men. Getting pregnant purposely then collecting child-support checks. I've personally seen this scenario a LOT. I know several women who continue to have children out of wedlock with different men so they can collect the full child support from each man. It's shameful.
I've also personally seen a lot of women refuse to let the fathers have contact with the children. Can't blame the men for that.
And as I said, I live in a conservative state where the courts will side with the mother unless it is clearly indicated that the mother cannot take care of her children. So maybe the fathers are trying to get custody of their kids but can't.
My sister's son was given to his father by the court because she was deemed unfit. And my cousin got custody of his son without having to go to court because the mother agreed to it.
One thing about the west, it's not one size fits all.

What is the check on such fraudulent women?
Regards

 

[columbus]

What is the check on such fraudulent women?
Regards

There is almost none.
That's where equality and feminism come in to the moral equation.
Tom

 

[leibowde84]

What is the check on such fraudulent women?
Regards

It's a horrible plan, and usually the children are the real victims. Tough to prosecute though.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
What is the check on such fraudulent women?
Regards

There is almost none.
That's where equality and feminism come in to the moral equation.
Tom

Well, the men could adopt the birth-control measures themselves so that such women don't defraud them. Can't they?
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

It's a horrible plan, and usually the children are the real victims. Tough to prosecute though.

Why tough to prosecute? In stead of giving check to the fraudulent women, the governments could make laws and provide lawyers to the victims and save money getting fleeced by such deceiving persons. Proper legislations could always be made.
Regards

 

[McBell]

Why tough to prosecute? In stead of giving check to the fraudulent women, the governments could make laws and provide lawyers to the victims and save money getting fleeced by such deceiving persons. Proper legislations could always be made.
Regards

how do you prove it?

 

[columbus]

paarsurrey said: ↑
What is the check on such fraudulent women?
Regards

Well, the men could adopt the birth-control measures themselves so that such women don't defraud them. Can't they?
Regards

Yes.
Just as Muslims could adopt democracy and nonviolent political expression.
Can't they?
Tom

 

[paarsurrey]

Yes.
Just as Muslims could adopt democracy and nonviolent political expression.
Can't they?
Tom

Islam is not against democracy.
Islam never supported any dictatorial regime.
Regards