nPeace
Veteran Member
Your dogs are just copycats.
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Are there verses in the bible that have been proven to be scientifically true after the writing?
- Thread starter A Son of God
- Start date
The Anointed
Well-Known Member
So you don't know Enoch, who, according to your preferred bible, had lived in fellowship with God then at the age of 365, he disappeared because God had taken him away. Genesis 5: 23-24.
Enoch, of who it is written in Hebrews 11: 5; "It was faith that kept Enoch from dying. Instead, he was taken up to God so that he should not see death, and was not found because God had translated him: for before he was translated he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
When I return from town tonight, I will reveal to you exactly who Azazel is. God willing and time permitting.
74x12
Well-Known Member
There is a concerted effort to disprove the Bible through archeology. The problem is they keep proving it right.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Sorry, Exodus has already been proven to be a myth. The more recent books are not wildly inaccurate, but I don't see how one takes any solace in that.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Well that's wildly optimistic of you.
Proven? No. Presumed? Yes, and reasonably so, simply because the claims are wildly implausible. But to simply discard it as myth does it a gross disservice. It's little more than aging minimalism serving as dogma,
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Hardly. If you read the story it tells you on the order of two million Hebrews left Egypt and got lost for forty years. A migration of that order would have left massive evidence and yet there is none.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and all you have is a book of myths.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, not presumed. A logical conclusion based upon the lack of evidence that should be there.
This actually false in the extreme, the researchers and archaeologists that publish in the publication Biblical Archaeology, that both confirming the accuracy in some cases, and found evidence that the Bible is not accurate in others. Both Jewish and Christian archaeologist publish in this journal. Many of the articles do neither, and these articles simple deal with the history surrounding the history of the Bible.
Sound academic Archaeology does not deliberately try and prove anything right nor wrong.
For you, mythicism is a mantra. I seriously doubt that you're competent to estimate or evaluate "the lack of evidence that should be there" or even interested in such evidence.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Hey, I got bridge in Brooklyn you want to buy it?
74x12
Well-Known Member
He would likely just discount or excuse any evidence you presented.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Please, don't blame others for your unsupported beliefs. This is a case where evidence is expected. Evidence of much smaller and shorter migrations can be found in the region and yet there is nothing for this mega migration.
Well of course I ‘ve heard of Enoch. He is briefly mentioned in Genesis because he did not die but was taken by HaShem. But beyond that you spouted a whole other set of nonsense about him from non-Scriptures. As for the book of Hebrews, Christians hold it in esteem. That doesn’t mean it is proof to non-Christians.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, that is a creationist sin. I would welcome actual evidence.
Riders
Well-Known Member
AHA Yes Herod! It is a fact it was written by other historians who kept records at the time he did have a bunch of Jewish baby boys killed because he heard the supposed Messiah or Jewish king was to be born and hey noone is King except Herod!
The Anointed
Well-Known Member
Shaul wrote……. You are just spouting nonsense. The Hebrew Scriptures don’t say that Abraham was 58 when Noah died.
The Anointed……. If you believe that your preferred bible does not state that Abraham was 58 when Noah died, then it is you who are sprouting nonsense, my friend.
Your preferred bible states the Noah was 600 when the flood occurred and that he lived 350 years after the flood, it then states that 2 years after the flood Shem sired Arpachshad, who was 35 when he sired Shelah, who sired Eber/Heber when he was 30, and Heber was 34 when he sired Peleg, who was 30 when he sired Reu, who was 32 when he sired Serug, who was 30 when he sired Nahor, who was 29 when he sired Terah, who was 70 when he sired Abraham, which means that Abraham was born 292 years after the flood.
2+35+30+34+30+32+30+29+70=292.
Your preferred bible states that Abraham was born 292 years after the flood, 58 years before Noah died 350 years after the flood. So please stop sprouting your nonsense and start studying your erroneous preferred bible.
Shaul wrote…….Genesis 25 says Abraham was 175 when he died.
The Anointed…… And what has that to do with my statement that your preferred bible states that Abraham was born 58 years before Noah died.
Shaul wrote…… Luke didn’t get the “correct information. That’s the point. The Torah is correct. If Luke says something different, it is Luke that is wrong. (Duh!)
The Anointed……. So you reject the Septuagint which states the Arpachshad is the father of Kainam, in both Genesis 11:12; and 1st Chronicles 1:18, and you reject also the Book of Jubilees, where it is written in 8: 1; In the twenty-ninth jubilee, in the first week, [1373 A.M.] in the beginning thereof Arpachshad took to himself a wife and her name was Rasu’eja, the daughter of Susan, the daughter of Elam, and she bare him a son in the third year in this week, [1375 A.M.] and he called his name Kainam. And the son grew, and his father taught him writing, and he went to seek for himself a place where he might seize for himself a city. And he found a writing which former (generations) had carved on the rock, and he read what was thereon, and he transcribed it and sinned owing to it; for it contained the teaching of the Watchers in accordance with which they used to observe the omens of the sun and moon and stars in all the signs of heaven. And he wrote it down and said nothing regarding it; for he was afraid to speak to Noah about it lest he should be angry with him on account of it. And in the thirtieth jubilee, [1429 A.M.] in the second week, in the first year thereof, he took to himself a wife, and her name was Melka, the daughter of Madai, the son of Japheth, and in the fourth year [1432 A.M.] he begat a son, and called his name Shelah; for he said: ’Truly I have been sent.’
Luke either learned the truth of Shelah's father, from the Septuagint of the Book of Jubilee, but definitely not from your preferred erroneous bible..
Shaul wrote…….Azazel is the name given to a demon that consumes the “scapegoat”. HaShem told Moses this was to be done. You don’t accept that HaShem spoke to Moses?
Who knows what your even talking about with Enoch or what that has to do with anything.
You seemed confused that the Christian New Testament can be right while the Jewish Scriptures are wrong. That’s not possible. The Christian New Testament affirms the correctness of the Jewish Scriptures. But the reverse is possible. The Jewish Scriptures can be right while the Christian New Testament wrong. That is possible.
The Anointed……. And it is more than possible that the builders of both religious organisations, who have rejected Enoch, have rejected the most important stone of all.
Azazel is not the name of some desert demon who eats goats, don't talk such nonsense.
The books of Enoch from which Jesus and his apostles taught, were cherished by the early Christians and were held in great reverence by many of the early church fathers, including Irenaeus, Tertullian and Origen, until the early 4th century when, under the ban of dogmatic religious authorities such as Jerome, Hillary and Augustin, they finally passed out of circulation and were thought lost for millennia.
The name Jared, means “DESCENDING” see Young’s Analytical Concordance. And in the Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, it is written that it was in the days of Jared [The physical father of Enoch] that the Sons of God abandoned their own original habitat and defiled themselves with the daughters of man.
Concerning Azazel, we read in the Book of Enoch the prophet, chapter 9 to chapter 10; “And Michael said to the heavenly Lord, [Jah-el---Lord to the glory of El the creator] "Seest what Azazel hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and has revealed the eternal secrets which were preserved in heaven, which men were striving to learn. And Semjaza, to whom you have given authority to bear rule over his associates (The other 199 sons of God) and they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth and have slept with them and revealed to them all kinds of sin etc.
Semjaza, the leader of the observers, taught enchantments, and root cutting, among other sons of God who revealed to the women all kinds of sin, were Armaros, who taught the resolving of enchantments, Baralqual taught astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon, etc.
But Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tintures etc.
The Lord, through his only begotten prophet Enoch, then passed judgment on the angels who had forsaken their own original habitat and came down and defiled themselves with the daughters of men, saying to them; “You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew only worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth.”
They were then to be bound and cast into the valley of the earth until seventy generations had passed, (Jesus was seventy generations from Enoch, see Luke 3: 23-38) but Azazel was punished separate from the others, See the Book of Enoch the Prophet 10: 4-9; “And again the Lord said to Raphael: Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening 5) in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may 6,7) not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the 8) Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted 9) through the works that were taught by Azazel: TO HIM ASCRIBE ALL SIN.
It was from the records of Enoch that Moses received the regulations, rules and laws, of the new religion, which included the religious regulation where Aaron would place his hand upon the head of a scapegoat, symbolically transferring the sins of Israel to the goat, which was then sent out into the wilderness to Azazel, the Son of God to whom ALL SIN IS ASCRIBED..
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The Anointed
Well-Known Member
Don't talk such nonsense. The Exodus is thought to be a myth only in the minds of those who have never studied the scriptures and who in their ignorance, of same, attack those scriptures.
To begin with, the Israelites were only in the land of Egypt for some 215 years.
From ‘The World Book Dictionary,’ (Hyksos) “A succession of six foreign rulers of Egypt—from about 1730 B.C. to about 1570 B.C; Shepherd Kings.” --- And from the Encyclopedia Britannica, ‘Hyksos’, invaders who were also called the Shepherd Kings, who in the time of “King Tutimaios” entered Egypt and took possession of it without striking a blow and it is said here that Josephus the historian, identifies them with the Israelites and that their reign ended in 1567 B.C.
Genesis 41: After Joseph had revealed to the king that his dreams were a prophecy telling of a seven year period of plenty, which would be followed by a seven year period of severe drought, Joseph is made Governor of all Egypt, and all Egyptians were commanded by the King to obey him. The King removed his royal ring with its engraved seal and put it on the finger of Joseph. He was given the second royal chariot and a guard of honour who went ahead of him crying out, “Make way, make way.” And the King said: I am King, but no one in all of Egypt shall so much as lift a hand or a foot without Joseph’s permission. He gave Joseph an Egyptian wife, Asenath, the daughter of the High priest of Heliopolis, who prophesied that if ever the bones of Joseph left Egypt, the LIGHT of Egypt would go with him. For that reason, a permanent guard was set up to keep watch over the tomb of Joseph, in order that no one could remove the mummified body of Joseph.
During the seven years of plenty, Joseph gathered a percentage of the Egyptian grain crop as a tax, which was stored in silos throughout Egypt. In the early stages of the great seven-year drought, the Egyptians had to buy their grain from Joseph, when their money had all gone they traded their possessions and livestock, after which, they were forced to sign their land over for grain in order to survive.
Genesis 47: 20-21. Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for the king. Every Egyptian was forced to sell their land, because the famine was so severe; Joseph made slaves of all the people from one end of Egypt to the other, without striking a blow.
If Josephus the historian is correct and the exodus of the Shepherd Kings did occur in 1567 BC, and Jericho was destroyed after they had wandered in the desert for 40 years, then according to the biblical account, the destruction of Jericho would have occurred around 1527 BC. 1567-40=1527.
The Hyksos were described as bowmen and cavalrymen wearing the cloaks of many colors, much like the cloak of many colours that was worn by Joseph the son of Israel and the first of the Hykos kings, of who it is said in Genesis 50: 23; that he lived to receive the children of Machir the son of Manasseh into the family. And in Judges 5: 14, it is written that the commanders of the army came down from Machir, of who it is said in Joshua 17: 1; that Machir was the first born son of Manasseh, the first born of Joseph, and that he was a military hero, and the father of young Gilead.
Gilead the first born of Machir would have been welcomed into the family by Joseph, and presumably, the funeral procession of Young Gilead in the line of first born of the Hykos Kings, who died childless beside his father ‘Machir’ in a war against the people of the country that would later carry his name, ‘The land of Gilead’ that was allocated to the descendants of Machir after the exodus. The funeral procession of Gilead would have been led by his great grandfather Joseph, and buried in his own tomb, which was to be later placed under a permanent guard against tomb robbers.
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After the Exodus of the shepherd kings, and the removal of the mummified remains of Joseph, which were to be taken to Shechem and buried there in the land of Israel as per Joseph’s last wish, the Egyptian Guards would have been removed, and any grave robbers who were later confronted with the opened sarcophagus’ in the empty tomb of Joseph, would have assumed that others had beaten them to it, and had left empty handed, not realising, that in a sealed chamber at the back of Joseph’s tomb, was the mummified remains of the young prince of the Hykos dynasty, with all its wonderful treasures.
Kathleen Kenyon, a most respected archaeologist dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests, which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.
The radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%, confirm that the biblical date of 1527 BC for the destruction, agrees with Kathleen Kenyon’s findings.
1562 (minus 38 years) [1562-38=1524 BC.] this would mean that Jericho fell somewhere between 1562 and 1524 BC, close enough to the 40 years after Josephus’ date for the Exodus in 1567. [1567-40=1527 BC]
Following under the cloud, which was the residue of the explosion of the Island of Santorini, the Israelites wandered across the wilderness for forty years moving as the cloud moved and feeding on the carbohydrates that were left on the desert floor from the burning hailstones that fell from the cloud at night.
The only evidence that they would have left in those numerous camp sites during that forty years, would mainly have been their faeces.
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That is totally wrong. Serious scholars, both Christian and Jewish have looked for the clear evidence that should exist. It is lacking.
This is a case where a lack of evidence is evidence that an event did not happen..
The Anointed
Well-Known Member
Jericho was destroyed forty years after the Israelites left Egypt according to the evidence of Josephus the historian and the
most respected archaeologist
dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests, which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.Kathleen Kenyon, who
The radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%, confirm that the biblical date of 1527 BC for the destruction, agrees with Kathleen Kenyon’s findings.
According to the compilers of Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, they date the exodus at somewhere around the year of 1500 BC about the period when the island of Santorini or Thira blew its top, when seismic waves and other catastrophic events occured.
The fourteenth day of the first month of the Jewish year, which was the first Passover ever, was the day in which all the first born sons of Egypt were killed. Around that time the volcanic Island of Santorini or Thira as it is also known, which was situated in the Aegean-sea, on the Anatolian plate, which is subject to the forces of the over-riding African Plate that grinds against the Arabian plate in its Northern migration, exploded with many times the force of Krakatoa, which was a volcanic island that exploded in 1883, and that explosion was heard 5,000 kilometres away, and caused a tsunami that killed at least 36,000 people. It has been estimated that when the island of Santorini exploded, 35,000 kilometres of material was lifted into the stratosphere and that the explosive force would have created tidal waves of anything up to 130 ft high which would have traveled at speeds of around 150 miles per hour.
A cloud, that turned day into night around 1,500 BC, has been recorded in Chinese history, and would have covered all of north Africa.
The African and Arabian plates intersect in a line that runs through the Red Sea and up the Jordan valley through the Dead Sea which was created hundreds of years before the explosion of Santorini, when violent underground activity destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, which were then situated in the Jordan valley and in the days of Lot, that area was described, as like unto the garden of the Lord, with abundant fresh water flowing through it.
Look at the strange phenomenon that was occurring at the time of the Exodus. The cloud that blanketed north Africa and most of Europe, and turned day into a night so dark that a man was not able to recognise his own brother who was standing at arms-length from him. The rain of sulfuric acid that caused so much crop failure and the death of the livestock which were forced to feed on the polluted pastures, the following series of shock waves along the great rift valley and the fractures in the Sini peninsular which is situated on the Arabian plate, the bulging of the earth’s crust beneath the Red Sea which caused a highway to rise from the waters, with its following tremor when it collapsed and tidal waves that rolled in like two walls of water on either side of where the highway had been.
Wisdom of Solomon 19: 7-8, ‘Then was beheld the cloud that shadowed the camp, and dry land rising up out of what was before water, Out of the Red sea an unhindered highway, and a grassy plain rising out of the violent surge.”
Look even where the Israelites camped on the shore of the Red sea, which was smack bang in the middle of a major coal field in Egypt.
The bulging earth rising from the surging sea before them, pressurised gas screaming from the opening fissures creating towering pillars of fire to burn behind them, a strong east wind blew all that night causing the thick smoke to blind the pursuing Egyptians while lighting up the camp of the Israelites on the eastern side of those wild fires.
All these events were caused from pressures that had been built up over tens of thousands of years and would have occurred in their proper time, irrelevant of the Israeli situation. Where the miracle lay, was in the fact that an unseen deity was able, through his prophet Moses, to organise the events leading up to and including the exodus itself at the precise time in history that this cataclysmic event occurred.
In the book “The Wisdom of Solomon, 16” Solomon has much to say about the days of Moses; he speaks of the strange hails that fell from heaven. Burning balls of frozen gases, some with the ability to burn even in water, some which burned with a heat so intense that they incinerated anything they came in contact with, while other hail, burned with a cold fire through which animals could walk unharmed.
Solomon also speaks of the cloud that covered the Israelites in the desert and of the Manna that fell from heaven during the night. According to Solomon, the heavenly covering was a cloud by day and a host of stars by night, (a night sky ablaze with falling balls of burning hail stones). Then concerning the heavenly Manna, he says, “And that which was not injured by fire, [Burning hailstones] simply warmed by a faint sun beam melted away.
Each morning the desert floor was covered with a film of a flaky cellulose substance which looked like coriander seed, and would melt and breed worms and stink if left out in the sun, and yet could be preserved when cooked, and tasted like biscuits mixed with the purest of olive oils.
Carbohydrates are any of a group of chemical compounds, including sugars, starches, and cellulose, containing carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen only, [of which there was an ample supply in the cloud from the volcanic explosion] with the ratio of hydrogen to oxygen atoms usually 2 : 1. Perhaps, if our scientists could simulate the same conditions that occurred in the stratosphere when the island of Thira exploded, they may come up with an inexpensive and environmentally friendly source of food production to feed the starving millions on the earth.
The early Egyptian magicians or scientists, were able to duplicate some of the miracles of God as performed by Moses. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if our magician/scientists of today were able to perform the more mysterious of God’s miracles as seen in the days of Moses, and provide an abundant and cheap source of food to feed the ever growing population on this earth.
As I have already said, all those things that happened in Egypt at that time, were caused from pressures that had built up over many, many, thousands of years. Where the miracle is found, is in the fact that some invisible entity from some other time dimension, was able to instigate the Exodus, at the precise time that the destructive forces beneath the island of Santorini, were beginning to awake.