Are these Riots?

[Curious George]

When I was in college, there was one fraternity-inspired riot where drunk college students dropped beer bottles from the top of a building and smashed windows. There was nothing at all political about it just alcohol. And as noted, riots happen around sporting events as well.

If there were six guys on top of a building and three threw beer bottles over breaking windows, was it still a riot?

 

[Notanumber]

A public disturbance during which a group of angry people becomes noisy and out of control, often damaging property and acting violently. In law, a riot is typically defined as a group of three or more persons disturbing the public peace for private purposes.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

A public disturbance during which a group of angry people becomes noisy and out of control, often damaging property and acting violently. In law, a riot is typically defined as a group of three or more persons disturbing the public peace for private purposes.

so, a group of fans, whose team just won the championship, who cause a public disturbance by being noisy and out of control in their celebrating, and damage property and engage in looting, etc., because they are happy that their team won, would not be a riot?

why does "angry" play any role in this definition?

 

[Watchmen]

I would say portions of what happened in Berkeley would be classified as a riot. But then by the same definition 5 second graders breaking a window is also a riot, as is a city in chaos such as with the Rodney king riots, as is a group of people wearing sheets setting fire to a cross in someone's front lawn.

So, are all of these riots? They are certainly distinguished from each other. So are there different levels of rioting? Are all riots equal?

Of course all riots aren't equal. What happened in Berkeley is pathetic.

 

[sun rise]

If there were six guys on top of a building and three threw beer bottles over breaking windows, was it still a riot?

If I've learned anything about language over the years, it's that one can argue the definition of a word into mush. Personally it was smashing windows that put it over the line into a riot but you're welcome to disagree.

 

[Curious George]

Of course all riots aren't equal. What happened in Berkeley is pathetic.

Though I would probably choose a different word than pathetic. "Inexcusable," "unfortunate," "unproductive." I'mean not sure which word to use. However, I imagine the sentiment is the same.

Would you consider a group of men burning a cross on someone's lawn, illegally of course, a riot?

 

[Watchmen]

Would you consider a group of men burning a cross on someone's lawn, illegally of course, a riot?

Possibly, but it might not satisfy the public element of the definition of "riot." See post 18.

 

[Curious George]

Possibly, but it might not satisfy the public element of the definition of "riot." See post 18.

Which definition? And how would it not satisfy it?

 

[psychoslice]

I think a riot is just a mob of idiots, who have no idea what their even fighting about.

 

[Watchmen]

Which definition? And how would it not satisfy it?

Either one. The public element.

 

[Curious George]

Either one. The public element.

Are you imagining a situation wherein this act is not visible to the public? Setting a cross on fire illegally in someone else's lawn would certainly alarm or threaten others who could view it, thereby satisfying the "public element." I suppose we could contrive such a situation wherein the act is completely private, but generally setting fire to a cross on someone's lawn is something that would reach the public.

 

[esmith]

Are you answering a question with a question?

I think throwing "smoke bombs" and flares, committing assault and battery, and destroying property are disturbances of the peace. If they are done by a "crowd" then the would seem to fall under the strictest definition of a riot. But I am trying understand how we define a riot. Would a 5 second graders breaking a window qualify as a riot? Would 10 men playing loud music qualify as a riot? What do we mean when we say riot?

got to the legal definition of a riot vice making speculations would be a good start
Source

(a)
As used in this chapter, the term “riot” means a public disturbance involving (1) an act or acts of violence by one or more persons part of an assemblage of three or more persons, which act or acts shall constitute a clear and present danger of, or shall result in, damage or injury to the property of any other person or to the person of any other individual or (2) a threat or threats of the commission of an act or acts of violence by one or more persons part of an assemblage of three or more persons having, individually or collectively, the ability of immediate execution of such threat or threats, where the performance of the threatened act or acts of violence would constitute a clear and present danger of, or would result in, damage or injury to the property of any other person or to the person of any other individual.
(b)
As used in this chapter, the term “to incite a riot”, or “to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot”, includes, but is not limited to, urging or instigating other persons to riot, but shall not be deemed to mean the mere oral or written (1) advocacy of ideas or (2) expression of belief, not involving advocacy of any act or acts of violence or assertion of the rightness of, or the right to commit, any such act or acts.
(Added Pub. L. 90–284, title I, § 104(a), Apr. 11, 1968, 82 Stat. 76.)

 

[Curious George]

got to the legal definition of a riot vice making speculations would be a good start
Source

So do you think when five seconds graders break a window together that a riot occurred?

 

[esmith]

So do you think when five seconds graders break a window together that a riot occurred?

Depends on the situation and the DA. Technically it could be considered a riot but suggest you get serious about your example.

 

[Curious George]

Depends on the situation and the DA. Technically it could be considered a riot but suggest you get serious about your example.

I think that it would surprise people if we call all that are technically riots as such. It kind of devalues the term does it not?

 

[esmith]

I think that it would surprise people if we call all that are technically riots as such. It kind of devalues the term does it not?

But you see we don't because it would be ridiculous to do so' at this time.
However, let me ask you a question.
What is the average age of a 5th grade student? It's about 10 years old
Are 10 year old children used in a military manner? The answer is yes
Do 10 year old children here in the US present a threat as they do in other parts of the wold? Not at this time.
Could 10 year old children here in the US be organized into a mob? Yes, but not likely.

In other words if 10 year old's acted in the manner of those that do riot, would it not be conducive to look into the organizers first. Here in the US the majority of people do not see 10 year old's as a threat because they, at the present time, are not. Things could always change. So you can not give a definitive answer to your question.

 

[Curious George]

But you see we don't because it would be ridiculous to do so' at this time.
However, let me ask you a question.
What is the average age of a 5th grade student? It's about 10 years old
Are 10 year old children used in a military manner? The answer is yes
Do 10 year old children here in the US present a threat as they do in other parts of the wold? Not at this time.
Could 10 year old children here in the US be organized into a mob? Yes, but not likely.

In other words if 10 year old's acted in the manner of those that do riot, would it not be conducive to look into the organizers first. Here in the US the majority of people do not see 10 year old's as a threat because they, at the present time, are not. Things could always change. So you can not give a definitive answer to your question.

I'm worse still, I was talking about second graders. So they would be seven. I don't think it would be out of their ability for a group of five seven year old son to organize for the purpose of breaking a window. And a mob need only be three according to your definition. So if we use your definition we can give a "definitive" answer.

But it seems you also see a distinction between the technical definition of a riot and the way we use the term. When should we use the term productively?

 

[esmith]

I'm worse still, I was talking about second graders. So they would be seven. I don't think it would be out of their ability for a group of five seven year old son to organize for the purpose of breaking a window. And a mob need only be three according to your definition. So if we use your definition we can give a "definitive" answer.

But it seems you also see a distinction between the technical definition of a riot and the way we use the term. When should we use the term productively?

When it is advantageous to do so. And no I do not have a explicit definition of advantageous, each incident would have to be judged individually.

 

[Curious George]

When it is advantageous to do so. And no I do not have a explicit definition of advantageous, each incident would have to be judged individually.

Well hopefully advantageous refers to communication and not the media trying to spin the events as being larger or greater than they actually are-regardless of whether that is the left trying to spin a story of an increasingly popular movement or the right trying to spin the story of an increasingly lawless movement.

 

[esmith]

Well hopefully advantageous refers to communication and not the media trying to spin the events as being larger or greater than they actually are-regardless of whether that is the left trying to spin a story of an increasingly popular movement or the right trying to spin the story of an increasingly lawless movement.

I do not see reporting any story that deals with the destruction of private property while protesting as spin. Do you?. Do you not think that anytime any group from any political persuasion has elements of unlawful activity should be reported.
To change the subject somewhat could you please answer a question for me?
I see film clips of protesters on college and university campuses protesting a person speaking and identify them as associated with fascist, Nazis, or another subject they do not agree with and do not want them speaking at their school. Is not the history of fascist, Nazis, and other totalitarian government not allowing freedom of speech. Seems to me that the protesters are exactly what they are accusing the others of being. Comment?