Are too many churches caught up in being a donimination and not about following God's message?

[sojourner]

It might very well be a lack of understanding of the verse. Perhaps the women were whispering to each other during the worship service and they were to stop causing a disturbance. I find it annoying if the people behind me keep whispering while I'm trying to hear the sermon.

That is a common assumption, but it's just not worded that way. A better explanation is that Paul hoped to have the worshiping church resemble the surrounding non-Christian community more closely.

 

[Green Gaia]

It might very well be a lack of understanding of the verse. Perhaps the women were whispering to each other during the worship service and they were to stop causing a disturbance. I find it annoying if the people behind me keep whispering while I'm trying to hear the sermon.

Why would you assume women were doing something inappropriate?

No, the ban on women speaking is a denominational-wide thing.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Why would you assume women were doing something inappropriate?

No, the ban on women speaking is a denominational-wide thing.

I was talking about the possibility that the verse doesn't mean what most people assume it means. Another possibility is that women were asking questions during the service.

1 Corinthians 14
30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

On the other hand, if God sets up a line of authority, that's okay by me.

 

[keithnurse]

It would be interesting to see a church that actually ignored denominational differences and focused solely on the bible. I think it would be hilarious to watch them implement this particular rule that the bible seems to be extremely clear on:
"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?" (1 Cor. 14:33b-36 NIV).

I think it is a very good thing that most churches ignore this verse. There have been churches that were started in order to have a true New Testament church not a part of any denomination and they eventually became yet another denomination. For example the Restorationist, or Campbellite Movement in the 19th century which eventually split into the Disciples of Christ and Church of Christ denominations. "Nondenominational" churches are actually a congregation that is its own denomination. My experience has been that the average church around the corner, whether denominational or independent, teaches a watered down form of Christianity that says going to church services and being nice is what Chrisitianity is all about.

 

[Charity]

I've felt for quite a while that people are too concerned with the name on the building rather than the God that is in their own heart......We, the believer are the real temple or the building of Christ, not a building made of wood, stone, bricks or such that is built by man.....

 

[stilts]

I take the opposite view as most of the posts here. I am a Christian, a member of the Church of Christ.

Isaiah 55 : 8-9 shows us that despite what some of us feel/think, our thoughts/ways are not equal with the Lord's.

Eph 4: 4-6 teaches us that there is one body and one faith

Eph 1: 21-22 teaches us that the church is the body of Christ

Thus, by simple logic (church = body ; only one body ; only one church)

In John 17: 21 Jesus prays that all His followers be one.

In 1 Cor 1: 12 Paul condemns the divisions among those at Corinth.

One thing is clear, denominationalism is not unity. Denominations do not exist because that was how God planned it all along. The reasons why denominations exist is because of man made differences. That is why so many denominations have manuals, so that they can define their differences.

I think it is ironic that many of those who believe/profess that it doesn't matter what denomination you attend, condemn members of the Church of Christ due to our beliefs.

As far as the women keeping silent. The verse in question says "as the Law also says". The Law was given long before Paul wrote Corinthians, so it probably wasn't a parochialism.

Some people claim that the Church of Christ is just another denomination, as Keith said. In the first century,the Romans, at first thought that the Christians were just a sect of Judaism. Perception is not always reality
Just because it is difficult to view anything as non-denominational in today's religious climate, does not mean we're just another denomination.

 

[gzusfrk]

I think the reason the women were to remain silent in the church assembled,is because man was created in the image of god, woman came from man, and the woman was deceived by satan, man was deceived by the women.................I still love em!!!!!!!

 

[gzusfrk]

I take the opposite view as most of the posts here. I am a Christian, a member of the Church of Christ.

Isaiah 55 : 8-9 shows us that despite what some of us feel/think, our thoughts/ways are not equal with the Lord's.

Eph 4: 4-6 teaches us that there is one body and one faith

Eph 1: 21-22 teaches us that the church is the body of Christ

Thus, by simple logic (church = body ; only one body ; only one church)

In John 17: 21 Jesus prays that all His followers be one.

In 1 Cor 1: 12 Paul condemns the divisions among those at Corinth.

One thing is clear, denominationalism is not unity. Denominations do not exist because that was how God planned it all along. The reasons why denominations exist is because of man made differences. That is why so many denominations have manuals, so that they can define their differences.

I think it is ironic that many of those who believe/profess that it doesn't matter what denomination you attend, condemn members of the Church of Christ due to our beliefs.

As far as the women keeping silent. The verse in question says "as the Law also says". The Law was given long before Paul wrote Corinthians, so it probably wasn't a parochialism.

Some people claim that the Church of Christ is just another denomination, as Keith said. In the first century,the Romans, at first thought that the Christians were just a sect of Judaism. Perception is not always reality
Just because it is difficult to view anything as non-denominational in today's religious climate, does not mean we're just another denomination.

It would seem to me that, some churches of christ follow the bible, as it is about all we have for direction, we believe the word became flesh, their pretty much one then, so anyone, anywhere following the bible,will become his church and be saved

 

[stilts]

gzusfrk - It would seem to me that, some churches of christ follow the bible, as it is about all we have for direction, we believe the word became flesh, their pretty much one then, so anyone, anywhere following the bible,will become his church and be saved

I would agree.....however, division is clearly condemned by Jesus, the apostles, etc.
Is it poossible to truly follow the Bible and subscribe to denominationalism?

 

[gzusfrk]

gzusfrk - It would seem to me that, some churches of christ follow the bible, as it is about all we have for direction, we believe the word became flesh, their pretty much one then, so anyone, anywhere following the bible,will become his church and be saved

I would agree.....however, division is clearly condemned by Jesus, the apostles, etc.
Is it poossible to truly follow the Bible and subscribe to denominationalism?

some might call it denomination within itself. denomination meaning a religous group or one kind of unit.

 

[ayani]

It might very well be a lack of understanding of the verse. Perhaps the women were whispering to each other during the worship service and they were to stop causing a disturbance. I find it annoying if the people behind me keep whispering while I'm trying to hear the sermon.

yes, i've also heard this verse explained within the context of disturbance and chattering, not legitimate contribution to the worship service.

obviously women can and do and must have a place in the body of Christ and within the worship service. but scripturally it's a place with and alongside male believers, as opposed to over them as a church head.

any woman who has believed in Jesus and baptized with the Holy Spirit may be called and used by God to serve, teach, share the Gospel, minister to fellow believers, serve the poor and suffering in Christ's name, or any number of things. or, she may be called to do several of those things in various smaller ways day by day, week by week.

depends upon the woman, where God has placed her, and what He has equipped and called her to do. but doubtless, Christian women are called to do far more than simply sing in church and mother families. they are called to be disciples, bear fruit, and be salt and light in the world.

 

[Kathryn]

1. I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
2. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
3. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. 4. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
5. He descended into hell. On the third day he rose again.
6. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
7. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
8. I believe in the Holy Spirit,
9. the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints,
10. the forgiveness of sins,
11. the resurrection of the body,
12. and the life everlasting. Amen.

Most Christian churches could agree easily on these basics of the faith (remember that the word "catholic" in this context means simply "universal," not the Catholic Church).

The rest is style and personality.

 

[keithnurse]

The Churches of Christ are no different than Roman Catholics and Orthodox and Jehovahs Witnesses and Mormons in the sense that they all make the self serving claim that they are not "just another denomination" but are the true church that follows the New Testament and there be no more divisions if only everyone would just join them. But all these above listed groups act like denominations, look like denominations. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

 

[gzusfrk]

The Churches of Christ are no different than Roman Catholics and Orthodox and Jehovahs Witnesses and Mormons in the sense that they all make the self serving claim that they are not "just another denomination" but are the true church that follows the New Testament and there be no more divisions if only everyone would just join them. But all these above listed groups act like denominations, look like denominations. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

I think the big difference in the churches you are naming,is that all or most of them have their own book of sorts that has rules,each use the bible to back their book, the churches of christ that I know have only one book, the new testament bible.

 

[keithnurse]

I think the big difference in the churches you are naming,is that all or most of them have their own book of sorts that has rules,each use the bible to back their book, the churches of christ that I know have only one book, the new testament bible.

And that is the characteristic of their denomination. Of course they have other books other than the NT. They have books that say the NT teaches "Sola Scriptura" so they DO use other books than the NT. All denomination claim to be getting "back to the Bible" and be a restoration of the NT church.

 

[gzusfrk]

And that is the characteristic of their denomination. Of course they have other books other than the NT. They have books that say the NT teaches "Sola Scriptura" so they DO use other books than the NT. All denomination claim to be getting "back to the Bible" and be a restoration of the NT church.

I have never heard of sola scriptura,but I do know that most,I know of several that use nothing other than the bible. Dont try to tell me other wise I have been there.

 

[keithnurse]

I think the big difference in the churches you are naming,is that all or most of them have their own book of sorts that has rules,each use the bible to back their book, the churches of christ that I know have only one book, the new testament bible.

I have never heard of sola scriptura,but I do know that most,I know of several that use nothing other than the bible. Dont try to tell me other wise I have been there.

"Sola Scriptura" is the doctrine that says the Bible is to be the only basis for a churches doctrine. Most protestant denominations, including Churches of Christ, teach this doctrine.

 

[LittleNipper]

"Sola Scriptura" is the doctrine that says the Bible is to be the only basis for a churches doctrine. Most protestant denominations, including Churches of Christ, teach this doctrine.

I believe another point is that we believe the Scripture IS THE STANDARD against which all points of doctrinal consideration is measured/weighed...

 

[gzusfrk]

"Sola Scriptura" is the doctrine that says the Bible is to be the only basis for a churches doctrine. Most protestant denominations, including Churches of Christ, teach this doctrine.

The church of christ I attend,Have no such book ,and I still had never heard of solo till you said it.

 

[keithnurse]

I believe another point is that we believe the Scripture IS THE STANDARD against which all points of doctrinal consideration is measured/weighed...

This is exactly the same thing taught by Lutherans, Baptists, Nazarenes, Pentecostals, Church of God, Church of Christ and many other denominations.