• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Are US drone pilots war criminals?

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
It would be the same as launching a missile - the fact that they are being remotely controlled does not seem to be a factor that would diminish personal responsibility (or the chain of commands') nor liability compared to any other form (nor dilute it - even if multiple people are controlling it simultaneously).

The question then becomes whether or not the incidents amount to war crimes, certainly they involve civilian casualties and some of them have reportedly been targeted against political actors considered potential sources of future difficulty as opposed to actually enemies... tbh there are a lot of things done these days that could be called war crimes were they done by other nations but this has been the case ever since the league of nations and will continue so long as there is more than one country.

Personally I think we are at a point historically where we are going to see a flurry of such activities before these technologies begin to be utilised by other nations, in which case as geopolitical realities shift there will suddenly be a 'rethink' and people will have an epiphany that perhaps there should be limits on such means of warfare (which, given it has been used either in breaches of national sovereignty or else in an actual war - is what armed drone use is - while unarmed drone use is arguably merely another spy tool, armed drones could be considered either tools of war or else of assassination, the former being perhaps the more honorable label).
 
Last edited:

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Drone pilots are no better or worse than any other combatant.
They do their job according to rules of engagement.

Identifying targets and collateral damage is always problematic in warfare.
And even more so behind enemy lines.

That terrorists identify with civilians and live amongst them does not disqualify them as targets.
 
Last edited:

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I beg to differ. Drones, as well as missiles, are definitely worse than trench combat from a moral standpoint. To the point of being automatically criminal, in fact.
 

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
Trench combat certainly has less impact in terms of civilian casualties, it is also hardly representative of war in most of human history.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Trench combat certainly has less impact in terms of civilian casualties, it is also hardly representative of war in most of human history.

It is not a matter of statistics alone, or even of civilian casualties.

How much of a moral foothold can a soldier have when he is not using his own motivation and courage to face his enemies, but instead relies on the economic and technological superiority of his country?

Perhaps none at all.

A soldier that is not directly facing his opponents is not much of a soldier.
 

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
Ahh you are referring to that - well then why not take it back a step to swords? Or hand to hand combat?

Personally I dont think the difference is simply in the level of technology (though I do understand how technology by providing more capabilities expands the scope of an individual's influence and thus their capacity to engage in reprehensible actions) however the idea of a war crime while ambigious to an extent does not necessitate technological disparity but rather the extensiveness and lack of necessity of harm done.

Rather I believe the technological disparity to lead to an increased levels of national aggression and decreases the disincentives to engage in armed conflict which could lead to actions that could be considered illegal under international laws such as acts of aggression (and thus in terms of political individuals' and regimes crimes). Yet that is not the same as an individual soldier's crimes which do not seem enhanced by a technological advantage - rather the nature of their behavior and the application (of whatever means is at their disposal) could be considered grounds for allegations of war crimes.
 
Last edited:

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Ahh you are referring to that - well then why not take it back a step to swords? Or hand to hand combat?

Because we have better options these days. Or we would if we did not have so much silly military pride.


Personally I dont think the difference is simply in the level of technology (though I do understand how technology by providing more capabilities expands the scope of an individual's influence and thus their capacity to engage in reprehensible actions) however the idea of a war crime while ambigious to an extent does not necessitate technological disparity but rather the extensiveness and lack of necessity of harm done.

"War crime" is a pleonasm, at least these days.

All war is criminal.

The true question to me is to which extent the responsibility should be considered of the politicians alone.
 

Apex

Somewhere Around Nothing
I beg to differ. Drones, as well as missiles, are definitely worse than trench combat from a moral standpoint. To the point of being automatically criminal, in fact.
I don't think you understand the point of war...
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I don't think you understand the point of war...

Maybe I don't. Or maybe I do and would rather not minimize the significance of the moral cost.

Far as I can tell, there are only a very few purposes in war, and they tend to come down to these two.

1. Conquer territory and prune out population levels to solve demographic pressures.

2. Direct the attention and pride of people towards an "external enemy", facilitating the use of central power.
 
Last edited:

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
War is not about morals
it is about winning.
Even killing is incidental.
Soldiers and weapons are simply the tools.

Every thing is done to cause the other side to surrender with the least expenditure of money and lives.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
I find the whole idea of "war crimes" to be sadly amusing. There's no worse crime against humanity than war, period, and our pathetic attempts to classify some types of mass killing as "okay," and others as "not okay," in order to try to civilize the idea of war, is ludicrous.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Every thing is done to cause the other side to surrender with the least expenditure of money and lives.

I think you mean the most expenditure of money, or at least, the most that could possibly take place. Perhaps Britain is different.

Primary users United States Air Force
U.S. Customs and Border Protection
Royal Air Force
Italian Air Force Number built 104 [1] Program cost US$11.8 billion[2] Unit cost US$16.9 million (flyaway cost, 2013)[3
General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

s2a

Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
It seems that US drones have been involved in the illegal killing of civilians. Sample source Amnesty International says US could be guilty of war crimes over use of drones - Telegraph
Who should be tried? The pilots? Their commanders? The politicians?
What is a just punishment if they were found guilty?
I think terms like "war criminal" and "war crime" are misleading. There's no state of war between the US and Pakistan, Qatar, Yemen, or anywhere else that it's been engaging in drone strikes.

These aren't war deaths, because there's no war. There's also no justification of self defense, since the pilot is safe and sound thousands of miles away. What we're talking about is simply murder. It should be punished as such.
 
Top