Are we better off with or without belief in "God"?

[Scott C.]

Not talking about the actual, factual God but just the belief of.

What are the pros and cons? Are we better off with or without it?

Individually and socially.

The answer to this question is obvious and I would expect that all people would answer the same:

"If there is a God, then we are better off to believe in God. If there is no God, then we're better off to not believe in God."

So, your question really boils down to the question: "Is there a God?"

 

[MoonWater]

"For the majority religion is a guide on their spiritual journey."

And WHAT do tell is that?

What is a spiritual journey? Depends on who you ask. For many, possibly most, it is the journey to god or to discover god. For me it is a journey of self-discovery and not really about any "god" at all.

 

[Willamena]

"For the majority religion is a guide on their spiritual journey."

And WHAT do tell is that?

It's a piece that was torn from the morning, that hangs in the gallery of frost.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"For many, possibly most, it is the journey to god or to discover god. For me it is a journey of self-discovery and not really about any "god" at all."


The first is either very short or profitless.

The second is usually referred to as "reaching maturity."

 

[OmarKhayyam]

It's a piece that was torn from the morning, that hangs in the gallery of frost.

To borrow from another poster (one of those 'I wish I had written that' things)

If you understand that you may be a mystic.

 

[MoonWater]

"For many, possibly most, it is the journey to god or to discover god. For me it is a journey of self-discovery and not really about any "god" at all."


The first is either very short or profitless.

What makes you think the journey to god is short? I can understnd why you would think it profitless, but why short?

The second is usually referred to as "reaching maturity."

No it isn't, at least not in the terms I was speaking of.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"What makes you think the journey to god is short? I can understnd why you would think it profitless, but why short?"

It will be short if you quickly discover there is no there there and so ended.


Absent that discovery it may be long, very long, life long, unending. But always profitless.


Some apropos lines spring to mind but it is late and I fear I have overused my quotation allowance.:sad4:

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"No it isn't, at least not in the terms I was speaking of."

OK, you would know better than I what "terms" you are speaking of.

 

[MoonWater]

"What makes you think the journey to god is short? I can understnd why you would think it profitless, but why short?"

It will be short if you quickly discover there is no there there and so ended.


Absent that discovery it may be long, very long, life long, unending. But always profitless.


Some apropos lines spring to mind but it is late and I fear I have overused my quotation allowance.:sad4:

I don't see why there would have to be a god at the end of the journey for the journey to actually be worthwhile. But then I've always cared more about the journey itself rather than the destination. For someone who cares about the destination I can see how they would consider it profitless if they found nothing at the end.

 

[MoonWater]

"No it isn't, at least not in the terms I was speaking of."

OK, you would know better than I what "terms" you are speaking of.

I was speaking of self-discovery in a spiritual sense(after all this topic is about god, religion and spirituality and all that fun stuff). Not self-discovery in the sense of picking a career or hitting puberty. But just in terms of discovering all my facets, all the pieces of myself and becoming fully aware of who I am and what I'm capable of. The ultimate form of self-awareness in a way, just trying to know and discover everything about me.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"The ultimate form of self-awareness in a way, just trying to know and discover everything about me."

In that case we calling the same process by different names. I see nothing "spirtual" in the process of self-discovery. Anymore than there is "spirtual" knowledge in the learning the workings of an gasoline engine, or DNA.

You learn about your abilities and/or lack therof, you understand, you put that understanding in your general fund of things understood - and move on.

And so grow up.

 

[slave2six]

Religion is not some band-aid for a mental handicap. I don't doubt that many people use it that way but it is not it's only or even it's main use. For the majority religion is a guide on their spiritual journey.

We'll have to just disagree. I find no evidence of this "spiritual" world about which you speak. I just don't have it in me to believe in opinion, someone else's revelation, or the ethereal. I believe in things that are real and quantifiable. The thing is that it wasn't until I put away the fantasy world of religion that I woke up to the wonders of the physical universe which are in fact far more than enough for me to wonder at without introducing all this self-actualization stuff. I prefer to dwell on things that are wonderful in and of themselves and are not some affirmation of me as a person. We are so small and all this self-agrandizement is utterly ridiculous.

 

[slave2six]

Christians are people, not tools...

That all depends on what definition you are using for that word.

 

[slave2six]

What is a spiritual journey? Depends on who you ask. For many, possibly most, it is the journey to god or to discover god. For me it is a journey of self-discovery and not really about any "god" at all.

Then your comments make no sense when answering the question, "Are we better off with or without belief in "God"?."

 

[Willamena]

Then your comments make no sense when answering the question, "Are we better off with or without belief in "God"?."

I suspect all she was answering (responding to) was your comments.

 

[MoonWater]

"The ultimate form of self-awareness in a way, just trying to know and discover everything about me."

In that case we calling the same process by different names. I see nothing "spirtual" in the process of self-discovery. Anymore than there is "spirtual" knowledge in the learning the workings of an gasoline engine, or DNA.

You learn about your abilities and/or lack therof, you understand, you put that understanding in your general fund of things understood - and move on.

And so grow up.

As slave2six put it, "we'll just have to disagree". I see it as far more than simply learning my abilities, but that's me personally, I'm not saying others should see it the way I do, nor would I.

 

[MoonWater]

We'll have to just disagree....

On this we are in agreement

 

[MoonWater]

Then your comments make no sense when answering the question, "Are we better off with or without belief in "God"?."

As willamena said, I was responding to your comment. And then Omar had a few questions for me which I addressed. the original post i made, which has yet to be answered, was asking which "god" jeremiah was refering to in his OP. As whether or not we are "better off" without it would depend entirely on the concept itself, as well as how people act in following the concept.

IMO I think in most cases what needs to be changed or discarded/undiscarded isn't the god concept but how people act following their god concept. Though I don't doubt there are some god concepts out there that we ARE better off without, I've just yet to come across any.

 

[blackout]

I would say that people are better off... freer to concieve... without "hard wired" 'beliefs' in general.

 

[Quagmire]

I think we're better off not beleiving in anything because if you're in the middle of "believing" something, you're thinking about an abstract.

If you spend your time doing that you might not hear the ice cream truck when it comes.