Are We in Late Stage Capitalism?

[Shadow Wolf]

We don't have ways of viably making (do you mean earning or printing) or distributing money?

As we continue to lose jobs to technology, no. Most jobs as it is can be made cheaper and more efficient with a robotic work force. 3d printing is another upcoming that will further erode our traditional concepts of work and income.
What do people do for basic needs when they can't get a job to meet those needs?

 

[Kooky]

“A spectre is haunting Europe—the spectre of Communism."

-Marx, 1848.

Been 173 years since and capitalism is still strong.

I think it will be fine.

Yea, capital will just happily trundle along.

People, on the other hand, will be screwed.

 

[sun rise]

I would differentiate "Free enterprise" and "capitalism". The former is the ability of people to run businesses with a low bar to entry. This to me is a "doing well by doing good" idea where success is related to offering products and services that truly enhance people's lives.

The later, to me, is related to inequality, oligarchy and using their power to create artificial barriers to starting competing businesses. It's the "greed is good" way of looking at the world which involves convincing people to spend money on useless and negative things so that the business owners get rich.

From that perspective, "capitalism" is in trouble.

 

[icehorse]

I didn't watch the video (I may have seen it before, I think?) but it seems we could make the changes you outlined while still having a capitalistic framework, no?

I guess my earlier point is that there is no need to use any sort of "pure" economic system. I think that our best bet is a system with capitalist components and some Scandinavian-socialist components and some 50s thinking, and perhaps a dash of freemarket thinking - all put together in a nice, cohesive package

 

[Left Coast]

Yea, capital will just happily trundle along.

People, on the other hand, will be screwed.

Do you think the economy will be converted to something non-capitalist? If so, what?

 

[Left Coast]

I guess my earlier point is that there is no need to use any sort of "pure" economic system. I think that our best bet is a system with capitalist components and some Scandinavian-socialist components and some 50s thinking, and perhaps a dash of freemarket thinking - all put together in a nice, cohesive package

I tend to agree, although of course the devil is in the details.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I'm seeing a lot on social media about us (the US, the West, the world?) being in late stage capitalism. The idea as I understand it is that capitalism will soon collapse and/or be replaced by another economic system.

Do you agree? Is capitalism doomed? How will it end? What will, or should, replace it?

it must be inevitably doomed, but not necessarily imminent

the very very few obscenely rich have almost ALL the wealth

virtually everyone else, has very very little wealth, no wealth, or a lot of debt

many western economies have enormous debts as well, because they were enabling the massive transfer of wealth to a very few

more and more people will see this as unsustainable

if the majority are still anxiously awaiting for something to trickle down, we are not close

when the majority rejects this house of cards, the end will be near

it cannot go on forever, but it may very well go on for a long time yet

 

[MikeF]

it must be inevitably doomed, but not necessarily imminent

the very very few obscenely rich have almost ALL the wealth

virtually everyone else, has very very little wealth, no wealth, or a lot of debt

many western economies have enormous debts as well, because they were enabling the massive transfer of wealth to a very few

more and more people will see this as unsustainable

if the majority are still anxiously awaiting for something to trickle down, we are not close

when the majority rejects this house of cards, the end will be near

it cannot go on forever, but it may very well go on for a long time yet

Whole lot of whining going on. Things are so much better than our meager, barely verbal, hunger-gatherer ancestors had it.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Whole lot of whining going on. Things are so much better than our meager, barely verbal, hunger-gatherer ancestors had it.

if you say so

then it must be so

thanks for that enlightenment

 

[Brickjectivity]

I'm seeing a lot on social media about us (the US, the West, the world?) being in late stage capitalism. The idea as I understand it is that capitalism will soon collapse and/or be replaced by another economic system.

Do you agree? Is capitalism doomed? How will it end? What will, or should, replace it?

It isn't too late to fix.

You could institute laws preventing any entity from owning more than a certain amount of real estate, and you wouldn't have to confiscate real estate for this. You'd not allow the purchase of more or the inheritance of more. This would maintain a minimum number of property owners.

We already require education, and that is an enormous good for the public. We could improve this by requiring financial courses before the sixth grade or better which should include concepts having to do with mortgages, stocks, bonds and economics. Get everyone educated about how the system works.

 

[Quagmire]

Whole lot of whining going on. Things are so much better than our meager, barely verbal, hunger-gatherer ancestors had it.

In what way?

 

[MikeF]

In what way?

Yes, my post was flippant.

I think, however, it is important zoom out every so often and look at the whole historical scope of human existence. In any particular generation there is disparity among society members. But if we look at the overall standard of living and well-being of societies, say in 100 year increments, there is continual improvement.

Modern market based economies are what seem to work the best to date. Market economies recognize the instinctual need for incentive and reward in the human condition. I think less attention needs to be paid to income disparity and more towards a better minimum standard of living. Having ones health, a climate controlled roof over ones head, balance between required work and leisure, is all one needs for an enjoyable life. All the rest is superfluous.

The next step in market economies however, is to include the full cost of activity into the cost of product and services. That all costs, including product end-of-life reuse and recycling should be included in the cost of the product. Environmental costs should factor into all market endeavors to achieve a low or no-impact economy on the environment.

Markets work as long as we continually work to improve them.

 

[Revoltingest]

As we continue to lose jobs to technology, no. Most jobs as it is can be made cheaper and more efficient with a robotic work force. 3d printing is another upcoming that will further erode our traditional concepts of work and income.
What do people do for basic needs when they can't get a job to meet those needs?

Obvious!
Capitalism will fuel the UBI.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Obvious!
Capitalism will fuel the UBI.

I still feel that's like trying to put a bandaid on William Wallace.
We need a new system for a new age we are bringing in. Anchors to the past just won't do.

 

[Revoltingest]

I still feel that's like trying to put a bandaid on William Wallace.
We need a new system for a new age we are bringing in. Anchors to the past just won't do.

When you come up with something better, we'll talk.
Til then, I'm going with....

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When you come up with something better, we'll talk.
Til then, I'm going with....

The main suggestion I have is we first have to see where we're at with consumption without all the waste and advertisements making people buy junk. Basically work out what consumption looks like when it's not a consumption-based society.
But it's probably going to have to look more like Star Trek, where Kirk, Spock and Bones had no idea what to do with money.

 

[Revoltingest]

The main suggestion I have is we first have to see where we're at with consumption without all the waste and advertisements making people buy junk. Basically work out what consumption looks like when it's not a consumption-based society.
But it's probably going to have to look more like Star Trek, where Kirk, Spock and Bones had no idea what to do with money.

Economic systems shouldn't be based upon 60s TV shows.
The Expanse looks more achievable.

 

[PureX]

What does that mean?

Capitalism forces us all to compete with each other for our survival, like dumb animals. Yet humanity survives and thrives through mutual cooperation for collective benefit. So capitalism is antithetical to humanity.

 

[PureX]

I didn't watch the video (I may have seen it before, I think?) but it seems we could make the changes you outlined while still having a capitalistic framework, no?

No. I think you are confusing capital investment with capitalism. People offering their excess capital to commercial enterprise for a reasonable profit is not the same thing as giving the capital investor total control over the business enterprise they've invested in. Capitalism does the latter, and effectively perverts the purpose of all business enterprise. Under the capitalist system, we don't build houses for people to live in, we build them to garner a maximum profit on the capital invested in the enterprise. That profit goal of the capital investor perverts the fundamental purpose of business enterprise in the service of greed and competition, as opposed to the service of mutual benefit (fair trade) and cooperation. This fundamental perversion of purpose poisons everything it touches, and decreases the overall quality of life for any society foolish enough to engage in it.

And we are those fools.

 

[PureX]

So do you think the human race is going to wipe itself out? What non-capitalistic remedy would prevent that outcome?

It's simple. We have to take the total control of business enterprise away from the capital investor, and give an equal share of it to everyone else involved in the enterprise (the workers, the consumers, and the community within which it operates).