Are we simulated?

[LukeS]

Its unfalsifiable but unlikely. Given that it (sim theory) presumes a scientific model of reality, within that model there are likely to be more numerous unsimulated civilisaions than there are simulated ones.

 

[David T]

I am not sure why you even visit forums and ask questions. You are obviously not interested in anything outside your own sphere of beliefs.
Have it your way, and please start studying how to phrase things without all the expletives. It surely doesn't demonstrate higher learning at any level, scientific, religious, philosophical, etc.

Do you know who and what Oppenheimer quoted after the first atomic explosion?! Kind of telling whether you believe Indian mythology or not.

Oh I am sorry I just find children's fantasies dressed up as adult to be absurd. That is relevant to Me actually, as an artist! Now can we talk about the potential of a literal resurrection like kindergarten Sunday school ? Which IS, all is this really IS VIRTUALLY!!! So to Match the absurd Here I have empirical evidence in the photo below of us living in a virtual reality and it being literally a fact!!! Hilariously BTW being true!!! I call it NORMAL!!!! for normals this is reality!!! Reality for normals is all about them and what ever happens to be floating around in their cranium at any given moment! Normals have the inability to have and depth zero nadda! They are Superficial as hell dressing up confusion as intellectually meaningful depth. That's "NORMAL"normal. How to explain that to a normal is tricky. I would ask you but you are a Normal.

 

[Grandliseur]

Oh I am sorry I just find children's fantasies dressed up as adult to be absurd. That is relevant to Me actually, as an artist! Now can we talk about the potential of a literal resurrection like kindergarten Sunday school ? Which IS, all is this really IS VIRTUALLY!!! So to Match the absurd Here I have empirical evidence in the photo below of us living in a virtual reality and it being literally a fact!!! Hilariously BTW being true!!! I call it NORMAL!!!! for normals this is reality!!! Reality for normals is all about them and what ever happens to be floating around in their cranium at any given moment! Normals have the inability to have and depth zero nadda! They are Superficial as hell dressing up confusion as intellectually meaningful depth. That's "NORMAL"normal. How to explain that to a normal is tricky. I would ask you but you are a Normal. View attachment 18901

I am sure you know that just because I say that our reality may be virtual that this does not mean that the events happening in this reality are not real and do not have real consequences. In fact, in a virtual universe, events and consequences are real to the objects within this universe.

In the theory of a virtual, or holographic, universe, or simply real universe -the fact, yes, scientific fact, that everything in our universe conforms to mathematical rules have been clearly established.

Is the Universe Actually Made of Math? | DiscoverMagazine.com
"
In a series of papers that have caught the attention of physicists and philosophers around the world, he explores not what the laws of nature say but why there are any laws at all.

According to Tegmark, “there is only mathematics; that is all that exists.” In his theory, the mathematical universe hypothesis, he updates quantum physics and cosmology with the concept of many parallel universes inhabiting multiple levels of space and time. By posing his hypothesis at the crossroads of philosophy and physics, Tegmark is harking back to the ancient Greeks with the oldest of the old questions: What is real?
"​

So, as this article says, "what is real" - that is the true pursuit we should try to answer, whether you like the words virtual and holographic.

Why if we are real, is this true? "atomic theory that dictates via actual experimental observation that atoms (hence all normal matter and antimatter) is 99.999% empty space." "Virtual reality gives us the illusion of 'solid' matter even though the matter in question is 99.999% empty space. You can’t walk through ‘solid’ walls because that’s in the programming in the same way that our video game characters can’t walk through their apparently ‘solid’ walls (Casper the exception) because that’s in their programming."
The Emptiness Of Atomic Space | Society for Scientific Exploration

So, whether I am normal, normal +- one or several levels to the side of normal, the fact is that what is real is really not understood by scientists at all, just like gravity is not understood by is subject to a varied number of theories.

 

[David T]

I am sure you know that just because I say that our reality may be virtual that this does not mean that the events happening in this reality are not real and do not have real consequences. In fact, in a virtual universe, events and consequences are real to the objects within this universe.

In the theory of a virtual, or holographic, universe, or simply real universe -the fact, yes, scientific fact, that everything in our universe conforms to mathematical rules have been clearly established.

Is the Universe Actually Made of Math? | DiscoverMagazine.com
"
In a series of papers that have caught the attention of physicists and philosophers around the world, he explores not what the laws of nature say but why there are any laws at all.

According to Tegmark, “there is only mathematics; that is all that exists.” In his theory, the mathematical universe hypothesis, he updates quantum physics and cosmology with the concept of many parallel universes inhabiting multiple levels of space and time. By posing his hypothesis at the crossroads of philosophy and physics, Tegmark is harking back to the ancient Greeks with the oldest of the old questions: What is real?
"​

So, as this article says, "what is real" - that is the true pursuit we should try to answer, whether you like the words virtual and holographic.

Why if we are real, is this true? "atomic theory that dictates via actual experimental observation that atoms (hence all normal matter and antimatter) is 99.999% empty space." "Virtual reality gives us the illusion of 'solid' matter even though the matter in question is 99.999% empty space. You can’t walk through ‘solid’ walls because that’s in the programming in the same way that our video game characters can’t walk through their apparently ‘solid’ walls (Casper the exception) because that’s in their programming."
The Emptiness Of Atomic Space | Society for Scientific Exploration

So, whether I am normal, normal +- one or several levels to the side of normal, the fact is that what is real is really not understood by scientists at all, just like gravity is not understood by is subject to a varied number of theories.

Everything does not conform to mathematical rules math conforms itself to the universe. So that statement t itself is a virtualized perception itself and invalid. The statement is really really horrid science gone confused. The problem with the statement is that the sense of what is objective is centered in the human cranium which is false. Your statement is a "normal" inculturated perspective. Inculturated perspective recursively spins in on itself self referentially and grows worse over time in the individual and the collective. I spend most of my free time out in the wilderness not hunkered down inside culture and I do have a very very hard core scientific view as well as being extremely numinous.science narrative has some truth but only partially and it tends to be as spun in on itself as religion. Nature is the big dog but we talk about it as if it's some slave to our mental processes that's nonsense. Your view is pythagoean, mine is heraclitus in context to the logos. Radically opposite.

 

[Grandliseur]

Everything does not conform to mathematical rules math conforms itself to the universe.

Thank you for a well phrased answer. (not talking about this one line quote)
You are right in stating our perspective is 'radically opposite.' This is a chicken and egg - who came first - ideological difference. And I disagree with the above claim. But, you already know this. To me the universe is a construct; wherefore math and planning came before the universe making the universe conform, not the other way around.

Thank you. Isn't it nice we have the right to differ!

 

[David T]

Thank you for a well phrased answer. (not talking about this one line quote)
You are right in stating our perspective is 'radically opposite.' This is a chicken and egg - who came first - ideological difference. And I disagree with the above claim. But, you already know this. To me the universe is a construct; wherefore math and planning came before the universe making the universe conform, not the other way around.

Thank you. Isn't it nice we have the right to differ!

Mine is just very plain good science. We fall in love with our ideas way to much.
"We cannot live in a world that is interpreted for us by others. An interpreted world is not a hope. Part of the terror is to take back our own listening. To use our own voice. To see our own light"

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

On YouTube just days ago, Kurzgesagt, a science and philosophy animation channel (with cute birds), and Jake, one of the hosts of the popular Vsauce channels (Vsauce3), did a collaboration on this topic. Below are links to the videos in order.

Please discuss. I know this is in the Philosophy forum but I would like answers based on scientific knowledge and religious concepts as well as philosophical arguments for/against this theory.

Bonus questions for the bold thinkers; would the race running the simulation be simulated themselves? Would going backwards trying to find the original simulator lead to a flesh-and-matter reality at some point, or is it infinite, or would the simulation become a natural phenomenon at some point? Do you believe we can achieve this with technology at some point? Finally, could this theory become a part of religion (if it has already, name a religion and explain how it supports the theory)?

I remember a thought experiment in one of the "Aha!" books by Martin Gardner: a person comes up with an idea to carry as much information as he could ever need in a compact way: with one mark on a rod.

The way he would do it is to take whatever book he wants to record - or every book - and give each character a number (e.g. its ASCII code), then string all those numbers together to form one long number and put a decimal place in front of all of it. Then he would put a mark at that point on the rod.

So if we used A=01, B=02, etc., then "HELLO" would be 08/05/12/12/15, which would become 0.0805121215, so he would measure to a point 0.0805121215 of the total length of the rod and make a mark. Later, as long as the mark and the measuring device were precise enough, we could use the measurement to decode the original phrase... in theory.

In practice, though, this doesn't work. You don't have to go very many digits before the precision you need is a matter of fractions of the width of an atomic nucleus.

IOW, there's a limit to how much information can be stored in a quantity of matter... and by extension, in the universe.

Another way of looking at it: all this talk of universe simulations within universe simulations reminds me of that Stephen Wright line: "I want a full-body tattoo of myself, only taller."

 

[Grandliseur]

"We cannot live in a world that is interpreted for us by others.

This statement I agree with totally.
But referring back to math first, or universe first, let me just give you a thought that flew by me after I had posted last. When an architect plans and calculates the needed amount of iron, concrete pillars walls, floors - for a house to be able to withstand e.g. a category 4 hurricane, or an earthquake up to magnitude 8 or 9, the math comes before, the house. Similarly, this is why I say that math came before our universe; you have to have the physics right before it can comply to physic's rules.

Anyway, you most likely think it just happened without cause, spontaneously. I do not.
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As to having 'our' world interpreted by others, while I am Christian, I have left all churches exactly because that I what I refuse. I want my beliefs to be based on my own studies.

 

[VioletVortex]

"Simulation" is a relative term. For example, when you are playing a video game, what you are seeing in the screen from your point of view is a simulation. However, from the imaginary "perspective" of the figments depicted within the game, it is reality.

Similarly, we exist within a seemingly infinite universe. We do not exist beyond its constraints, just like the characters in the video game.

 

[David T]

This statement I agree with totally.
But referring back to math first, or universe first, let me just give you a thought that flew by me after I had posted last. When an architect plans and calculates the needed amount of iron, concrete pillars walls, floors - for a house to be able to withstand e.g. a category 4 hurricane, or an earthquake up to magnitude 8 or 9, the math comes before, the house. Similarly, this is why I say that math came before our universe; you have to have the physics right before it can comply to physic's rules.

Anyway, you most likely think it just happened without cause, spontaneously. I do not.
--------
As to having 'our' world interpreted by others, while I am Christian, I have left all churches exactly because that I what I refuse. I want my beliefs to be based on my own studies.

Ahhh very good observation. I had to comment first on that. Rarely here does anyone actually contemplate, they simply regurgitate. So my answer is the rock comes before the idea concrete. The tree comes before the math calculations for strength. A tree exists and it's strength exist independent of math. Math is highly accurate, like a pbotogaph. But we know that the image is not a person but an image. We know that QM doesn't restrict time forwards or backwards. Likewise a we can run a movie forwards and backwards film is not restricted from doing that. Therefore QM doesn't determine nature, it only is modeling. We fall in love with our Intellectual models and they become our reality. So yes most tend to live in that reality which is simulated or created by us. Like a painters painting of the landscape that over time becomes the landscape and that out there is determined by that on the canvas. We created a mirror of our own self reflection on what we have created not realising we created a mirror. Nature has a default fix for that called extinction if not seen. Nothing I posted has been Contradictory to the ancint texts. Especially the new testament. I am very much heraclitean on the logos not pythagorean as is common.