Are you a heretic?

[David T]

I believe I am one although no one has officially declared me one.

Basically the way I see it is that a heretic is anyone who disagrees with a person or group that claims to be the religious authority.

For instance in one of the churches I attended (non-denominational in name but Baptist in background) took me to account for believing something different about the Trinity. I was allowed to continue as a communicant even though some may have felt I should have been told to leave.

In another church (charismatic) I was told not to speak in church about religious subjects because I differed in my understanding of the Trinity and other things. When I wish ed to explore what the Bible says I was told that the Church determines doctrine and it was the authority (by extension not the Bible).
I left because I can't help but talk about my religious beliefs.

In the church I am in now (SBC) the Pastor considers himself and the denomination as the authorities and I definitely differ in my understanding with the Pastor and probably with the denomination as well although I don't remember anything specific. I am getting to stay but will probably never be asked to preach in this church because of my differing opinions.

So what is your story? Do you completely adhere to an authority and believe it is always right or do you think different opinions shouldn't divide people?

Well jesus was killed for being a heretic so you are in good company. He was very very unlikeable

 

[Audie]

I wouldn't go so far, I am a guest in a foreign land. I would prefer to stay in the free and not deported side of the fence.

I guess I am too, tho I have a green card.

 

[Audie]

Well jesus was killed for being a heretic so you are in good company. He was very very unlikeable

He was killed for sedition. Nothing to do with popularity, as such.

 

[Cacotopia]

I guess I am too, tho I have a green card.

Yeah well there isn't exactly a form I can fill out here for a work visa for my craft in particular, and they only last one year and cost between 3000-6000 depending on how corrupt the officials tare that are assigned to your case. So I will instead work to create but never sell within this country. Well I can sell, but all my proceeds go to my handler which in turn filters it down to me.

 

[David T]

He was killed for sedition. Nothing to do with popularity, as such.

Well he was a heretic and not popular. Even his followers abandoned him in confusion.... Except one crazy female

 

[Audie]

Yeah well there isn't exactly a form I can fill out here for a work visa for my craft in particular, and they only last one year and cost between 3000-6000 depending on how corrupt the officials tare that are assigned to your case. So I will instead work to create but never sell within this country. Well I can sell, but all my proceeds go to my handler which in turn filters it down to me.

Handler?

Never mind.

I came as a middle school kid,
and didnt want to be here, but, here I am now.

 

[Audie]

Well he was a heretic and not popular. Even his followers abandoned him in confusion.... Except one crazy female

So the story goes.
If you bother to believe it.
See Ferlinghetti on that one.

In the event, I dont guess I'd stick around to see
if they might want to say that I was also into rebelling against Rome.

 

[Cacotopia]

Handler?

Never mind.

I came as a middle school kid,
and didnt want to be here, but, here I am now.

My sponsor technically "owns" all of the work I create if it goes to exhibition, or show in a gallery. If anything is sold in an exhibition the money is deposited into her bank account to which I have a card assigned to her account that I can draw from should I sell anything here. Which isn't often, I have sold 3 pieces in 9 years to people physically here, the market for art is so completely saturated here. And I would imagine of the 6 million residents here, at least a 1/3 of them say they are artists. There are galleries up and down the street peddling nearly the same thing, tourism related.

And my stuff is if put in a broad sense, abstract, and I think out of the 300 ish pieces I got lying around one? has to do with the culture here. And most typically don't fit the bill of what most people here have come to buy. I had shows or work in galleries and see people walk in and ooo ahh at some painting of some orchids or a crane in a rice field, or a worker planting rice, which has been done literally to death here. But the tourist that wonder in ogle at that stuff. If you were to visit say 50 galleries here, I would say one or 2 have some original content in there.

 

[David T]

So the story goes.
If you bother to believe it.
See Ferlinghetti on that one.

In the event, I dont guess I'd stick around to see
if they might want to say that I was also into rebelling against Rome.

I recognize music when I see it. What does the poet say about the music. ?

 

[BilliardsBall]

I believe I am one although no one has officially declared me one.

Basically the way I see it is that a heretic is anyone who disagrees with a person or group that claims to be the religious authority.

For instance in one of the churches I attended (non-denominational in name but Baptist in background) took me to account for believing something different about the Trinity. I was allowed to continue as a communicant even though some may have felt I should have been told to leave.

In another church (charismatic) I was told not to speak in church about religious subjects because I differed in my understanding of the Trinity and other things. When I wish ed to explore what the Bible says I was told that the Church determines doctrine and it was the authority (by extension not the Bible).
I left because I can't help but talk about my religious beliefs.

In the church I am in now (SBC) the Pastor considers himself and the denomination as the authorities and I definitely differ in my understanding with the Pastor and probably with the denomination as well although I don't remember anything specific. I am getting to stay but will probably never be asked to preach in this church because of my differing opinions.

So what is your story? Do you completely adhere to an authority and believe it is always right or do you think different opinions shouldn't divide people?

Per official Roman doctrine, I am a heretic, saying that trust in Christ saves, without me needing to do anything works-wise to be saved or to reduce my time in purgatory.

Sometimes, it's worth being called a heretic, to promote Bible truth.

 

[paarsurrey]

I don't think it makes sense to call myself a heretic, no. None of the religious movements I affiliate with have any sort of central authority to whom obedience is expected, so the concept is not applicable:

• Unitarian Universalism is very much about seeking wisdom for yourself and finding your own path. Leaders can serve as guides in this process, but there is no authority one must bow to.
• Contemporary Paganism has such a dysfunctional relationship with authority, often condemning it harshly and to its own detriment as a maturing religious movement. If anything, the heresy in contemporary Paganism would be accepting authority.
• Druidry, at least the order I'm a member of, is basically a tree hugger's version of UU that lets you develop your personal tradition. Like UU, it has inspiring leaders, but none are authority figures.

Doesn't one truly hold that Truth is the authority, will one disobey it, please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Adhere to authority? Me? Never.

GW Bush trusted his "authorities" that troops would
be greeted with flowers in Iraq. Plate was quite the authority, and he sure got a lot of things wrong, tho
his errors were repeated for centuries.

Mom raised me to think for myself, and not trust
"authority", this with the backdrop of the horrors
of Maoism still reverberating. Mao knew, he was
the one who wrote the Little Red Book.

It is hard to think for yourself. It has been shown
so many times that people will change their minds,
believe the unbelievable, do the unthinkable, so
as to conform to the group.

To me the whole Christian religion is just so unbelievable. The OT god, who is reported doing
all these things that so clearly did not happen.

And so on.

Yet, a person finds him / herself first brought up
by parents who you are biologically programmed to
believe without question. Then into the larger group-
think, all saying yeah, verily yeah,all is true, look
we all believe.

It is so normal to doubt yourself, when all say the
same thing, along with arguments polished by
centuries of use.

Plus wanting to believe-it is a nice story. Would not
the earthly paradise shown in JW art be nice?
Eternal life with a loving Father, and reunited with
loved ones?

Now, I was not raised with any of that. In the
days when heretics were tortured to death, I
guess they'd get rid of me. Lucky I am not
in some Islamic state.

You dont seem to trust the "Authorities" in any church.
Yet you cannot think yourself infallible, and steered
to the Truth by God. Not if you are still sane.

Nobody is an Authority on this! It is all made up.

I wonder how far you are willing to let your heresy go?
So far, but no further?

What is one's answer to:

post #31 by paarsurrey , please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Welcome to the heretic's club. I only care about real things, which makes just about everyone annoyed with me.

What one understands from the word "real "things? Kindly give one's own understanding of the word instead of quoting from a lexicon, please.

Regards

 

[EverChanging]

I believe I am one although no one has officially declared me one.

Basically the way I see it is that a heretic is anyone who disagrees with a person or group that claims to be the religious authority.

For instance in one of the churches I attended (non-denominational in name but Baptist in background) took me to account for believing something different about the Trinity. I was allowed to continue as a communicant even though some may have felt I should have been told to leave.

In another church (charismatic) I was told not to speak in church about religious subjects because I differed in my understanding of the Trinity and other things. When I wish ed to explore what the Bible says I was told that the Church determines doctrine and it was the authority (by extension not the Bible).
I left because I can't help but talk about my religious beliefs.

In the church I am in now (SBC) the Pastor considers himself and the denomination as the authorities and I definitely differ in my understanding with the Pastor and probably with the denomination as well although I don't remember anything specific. I am getting to stay but will probably never be asked to preach in this church because of my differing opinions.

So what is your story? Do you completely adhere to an authority and believe it is always right or do you think different opinions shouldn't divide people?

I am culturally Episcopalian, specifically a cultural Anglo-Catholic, and I do consider myself a heretic, perhaps in a more extreme way than you. My branch of Christianity has official creedal and doctrinal standards, but it is very lenient in terms of heresy even among clergy and bishops, the official teachers of the faith. One can be an Episcopalian and believe just about anything. Despite a common profession of faith, we are more bound together by practices and rituals than a common interpretation of that faith.

A heretic is someone who is "able to choose." There is a sense in which I do not choose what I believe or don't believe. That arises through a natural process of reasoning and intuition. However, I don't look to external religious authorities to tell me what God expects of me theologically or morally.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I believe I am one although no one has officially declared me one.

Basically the way I see it is that a heretic is anyone who disagrees with a person or group that claims to be the religious authority.

For instance in one of the churches I attended (non-denominational in name but Baptist in background) took me to account for believing something different about the Trinity. I was allowed to continue as a communicant even though some may have felt I should have been told to leave.

In another church (charismatic) I was told not to speak in church about religious subjects because I differed in my understanding of the Trinity and other things. When I wish ed to explore what the Bible says I was told that the Church determines doctrine and it was the authority (by extension not the Bible).
I left because I can't help but talk about my religious beliefs.

In the church I am in now (SBC) the Pastor considers himself and the denomination as the authorities and I definitely differ in my understanding with the Pastor and probably with the denomination as well although I don't remember anything specific. I am getting to stay but will probably never be asked to preach in this church because of my differing opinions.

So what is your story? Do you completely adhere to an authority and believe it is always right or do you think different opinions shouldn't divide people?

Since I don't know anyone who accepts every religious authority, then it seems obvious to me that everyone is a heretic, at least according to one religious authority or another.

 

[Truthseeker]

I believe I am one although no one has officially declared me one.

Basically the way I see it is that a heretic is anyone who disagrees with a person or group that claims to be the religious authority.

For instance in one of the churches I attended (non-denominational in name but Baptist in background) took me to account for believing something different about the Trinity. I was allowed to continue as a communicant even though some may have felt I should have been told to leave.

In another church (charismatic) I was told not to speak in church about religious subjects because I differed in my understanding of the Trinity and other things. When I wish ed to explore what the Bible says I was told that the Church determines doctrine and it was the authority (by extension not the Bible).
I left because I can't help but talk about my religious beliefs.

In the church I am in now (SBC) the Pastor considers himself and the denomination as the authorities and I definitely differ in my understanding with the Pastor and probably with the denomination as well although I don't remember anything specific. I am getting to stay but will probably never be asked to preach in this church because of my differing opinions.

So what is your story? Do you completely adhere to an authority and believe it is always right or do you think different opinions shouldn't divide people?

There are no heretics in the Baha'i Faith because everybody is encouraged to understand the Baha'i Writings for themselves. There are some Baha'is that hold an opinion that I would otherwise define as heretical, but they have the right to hold that opinion. No one throws them out. The only case where someone is thrown out is if they don't believe in the central figures and they make a fuss about it or try to create an alternate authority for the Baha'i Faith.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I believe I am one although no one has officially declared me one.

Basically the way I see it is that a heretic is anyone who disagrees with a person or group that claims to be the religious authority.

For instance in one of the churches I attended (non-denominational in name but Baptist in background) took me to account for believing something different about the Trinity. I was allowed to continue as a communicant even though some may have felt I should have been told to leave.

In another church (charismatic) I was told not to speak in church about religious subjects because I differed in my understanding of the Trinity and other things. When I wish ed to explore what the Bible says I was told that the Church determines doctrine and it was the authority (by extension not the Bible).
I left because I can't help but talk about my religious beliefs.

In the church I am in now (SBC) the Pastor considers himself and the denomination as the authorities and I definitely differ in my understanding with the Pastor and probably with the denomination as well although I don't remember anything specific. I am getting to stay but will probably never be asked to preach in this church because of my differing opinions.

So what is your story? Do you completely adhere to an authority and believe it is always right or do you think different opinions shouldn't divide people?

I think we’re all heretics in someone’s eyes. If we want to be part of a faith community we need to be comfortable the central teachings to some degree. If I hadn’t become a Baha’i I would have continued as a Baptist but would have kept a lot of my thoughts to myself. That can be unhealthy though.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do you completely adhere to an authority and believe it is always right

No to both. It's not always right, and have a long history of doing what I want.

do you think different opinions shouldn't divide people?

Different opinions are healthy for people.

 

[Audie]

I recognize music when I see it. What does the poet say about the music. ?

"Obscurantism", in your case.

 

[Audie]

Since I don't know anyone who accepts every religious authority, then it seems obvious to me that everyone is a heretic, at least according to one religious authority or another.

You figure there is one real authority, or they are all pretenders?