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Are you a Zionist

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Is that the same as Israelis ignoring the commandments and imposing oppression just for the idolatry of a mount with no temple on it?

None of that happened.

What is true, is idolatry for that location (Tsion) is wrong in both rational thinking and tanakh

No one's doing that.

Why did you write a reply trying to insult me?

You insult yourself by saying stupid things and posting propganda like it's true.


This is a great example of propaganda. Thanks for helping to demonstrate what al-jazeera does to distort the truth.


Screenshot_20231225_014916.jpg


The "storm" on Al-Aqsa was by little children. The children are protected by soldiers because YOU would prefer that the indigenous people rape and disembowel her for walking on their land? They have demonstrated that's what they do.


Screenshot_20231225_015128.jpg


Look at how "aggresive" the young people are. ~eye-rolls~ They're at a parade. YOU cannot accurately distinguish between a parade and aggression? Or maybe you didn't *actually* watch the video and you don't *actually* know what you're talking about.



Screenshot_20231225_020243.jpg


The coorespondant literally says: "they [ the jewish people ] are allowed to enter" but al-jazeera completely lies about it, you repost the lies, calling them "incursions".

Why do you listent ot this stuff? Why do you re-post this stuff? Don't you know this is the coverage that DIRECTLY RESULTED in the rape, murder, and burning alive on innoccent people?
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
My argument isn't that there shouldn't be consequences though. My problem is the nature of the consequences. That is why I initially mentioned oppression and cruelty in one of my earlier statements.
Justice is distinct from oppression or cruelty. If someone knows what the penalty for the crime is but commits it anyway, then that's on them.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
Your take on Moses is interesting and I think pretty plausible. I tend to think that his monotheism is a descendent of Atenism.

My issue with the monotheistic religions isnt the monotheism itself but their exclusivism. I believe that even in the most benign exclusivist religions, the belief that one has exclusive access to truth leads to a whole lot of evils; ie dangerous cults, dangerous organisations and dangerous states. This is partially behind what is happening in Palestine. I dont know if it is specifically the mount that is the issue on the zionist side, but with all the problems happening to muslims in the world, muslims mostly only focus on what is happening in palestine, and I think it is because of Al Aqsa.
That al aqsa is the 1400 yr old building on the mount. UNESCO heritage site now, just for it's age.

That location is what the zionist require.

The Israelis set for new Jewish temple on Al-Aqsa site​

1703531276009.png
France 24
https://www.france24.com › France 24 › Live news




Jun 5, 2023 — Founded in 1987, the institute aims to rebuild the temple, training choirs and clerics and making objects for use in religious rites.



That location is why Israel is in palestine and not on a tropical island with streets paved in gold where all Jews would migrate too.

But the majority of Jews on this earth will not nor will move to israel.

On Anti-Zionism and Antisemitism | The Nation

Adoption of anti-Semitism definition curbs free speech: Report | Human  Rights News | Al Jazeera

Why Are There Jewish Anti-Zionists? | JewishBoston


Here in the west, Jews are not biased to blindly support Israel or zionism.

They know what is wrong and willing to turn on their own families to do what is right!
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
None of that happened.
Hundreds of Israeli settlers storm Al-Aqsa complex amid tension

Armed to the teeth, breaking status quo.
No one's doing that.
Hundreds of Israeli settlers storm Al-Aqsa Mosque


Recorded and is happening.
You insult yourself by saying stupid things and posting propganda like it's true.
Israeli police storm al-Aqsa mosque ahead of Jerusalem Day march | Israel |  The Guardian


This is a great example of propaganda. Thanks for helping to demonstrate what al-jazeera does to distort the truth.
Israeli settlers increase violent attacks in Al-Aqsa Mosque | Daily Sabah


Settlers increase violence


Israeli settlers increase violent attacks in Al-Aqsa Mosque​

BY DAILY SABAH WITH AA​

ISTANBUL SEP 28, 2020 - 3:07 PM GMT+3

3 years ago too
View attachment 86131

The "storm" on Al-Aqsa was by little children. The children are protected by soldiers because YOU would prefer that the indigenous people rape and disembowel her for walking on their land? They have demonstrated that's what they do.
Israelis using children to break the law "Status quo"

Thanks for confirming, that breaking the law of the land is about standard to you,

Even using children.
View attachment 86133

Look at how "aggresive" the young people are. ~eye-rolls~ They're at a parade. YOU cannot accurately distinguish between a parade and aggression? Or maybe you didn't *actually* watch the video and you don't *actually* know what you're talking about.
No you are confirming, the use of young minds, that dont know the rules and laws

""Al-Aqsa Mosque/al-Haram al-Sharif (The Noble Sanctuary) has emerged as the paramount obstacle in the standoff, one that continues to grow as a result of Israel’s repeated and ongoing violations of the Status Quo in Jerusalem."""

"Traditional Jewish law strictly forbids Jews ascending to the site out of fear of treading on sacred ground. However, a number of Zionist religious organizations backed by prominent figures from the Israeli political elite have formed with the primary objective of realizing the immediate construction of the temple and securing Jewish prayer rights on the Mount.

In 2016, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) passed one of its most important resolutions regarding Al-Aqsa Mosque. Document 200 EX/25, known as the Occupied Palestine Resolution, strongly condemned Israel’s escalating aggression and illegal measures against the Al-Aqsa waqf and its personnel—including guards, religious figures, and Muslim worshippers generally—called for the restoration of access for Muslims to their holy site, and demanded that Israel respect the historical Status Quo and immediately cease attacks and abuses that inflame tensions."
View attachment 86134

The coorespondant literally says: "they [ the jewish people ] are allowed to enter" but al-jazeera completely lies about it, you repost the lies, calling them "incursions".

Question: Shortly after the Six Day War in June 1967, the Chief Rabbinate posted a large sign at the Moghrabi Gate entrance to the Temple Mount stating that, according to Jewish Law, it is forbidden to enter the Temple Mount. This prohibition was reiterated by Chief Rabbis Shlomo Amar and Yonah Metzger in January 2005. (See Schepansky quoted below at the end of note 4 and Copans). As a result, many Jews, especially Orthodox Jews, have not entered the Temple Mount for the past forty years. Does Jewish law really forbid Jews from entering the Temple Mount, our holiest site?

Responsum:

I) The Primary Sources


We have been taught in the Mishnah (Kelim 1:6-9):
There are ten degrees of holiness. The Land of Israel is holier than any other land…The Temple Mount is still more holy, for no man or woman who has gonorrhea, no menstruant and no woman after childbirth may enter therein. The Rampart [an area of ten cubits surrounding the Temple itself] is still more holy, for no gentiles and none that have contracted ritual impurity from a corpse may enter therein. The Court of Women is still more holy, for a person who has immersed himself that very day [but the sun has not yet set] may not enter therein, yet none who enter would thereby become liable to a sin-offering. The Court of Israelites is still more holy, for none whose atonement is yet incomplete [i.e. who have not yet brought a sacrifice] may enter therein, and a person who does enter would thereby become liable to a sin-offering…

In his code (Bet Habehirah 7:15), Maimonides quotes this Mishnah, but adds one important sentence on the basis of Pesahim 67a (and parallels):

The Temple Mount is holier than Jerusalem because a menstruant [and the like] may not enter it.
Why do you listent ot this stuff? Why do you re-post this stuff? Don't you know this is the coverage that DIRECTLY RESULTED in the rape, murder, and burning alive on innoccent people?

Burned alive: Oh yea the phorsphorus weapons upon the civlilans of gaza:
They Burn Through Everything”: The Human Cost of Incendiary Weapons and the  Limits of International Law | HRW


Gaza injuries put focus on phosphorus


Turkish journalist posts photo of Kurdish phosphorus victim, says Israel  did this



It's christmas try to be honest for a day.

Using the atrocities of 10/7 is not a reason to deny the idolatry for the mount and what israel has done for the last 70 yrs to the population of palestine, over that stupid location.


The Temple as idolatry​


""""In rolling their eyes and “merely uttering several sentences” while atop the mountain they idolize, they ignore most Jews’ dismissal of their craving, most rabbis’ rejection of their theology, and every Israeli government’s express decree, not to mention the patent threat of the global backlash they provoke.
 

Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
Justice is distinct from oppression or cruelty. If someone knows what the penalty for the crime is but commits it anyway, then that's on them.
Oh ok. So if in a country converting to christianity is a crime, and the consequences is beheading, the law is not oppression or cruelty and is just simply because it is a law?
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Oh ok. So if in a country converting to christianity is a crime, and the consequences is beheading, the law is not oppression or cruelty and is just simply because it is a law?
Straw man. You're leaving out the part about agreement.

Cursed [be] he that confirmeth not [all] the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Deuteronomy 27:26
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
Straw man. You're leaving out the part about agreement.

Cursed [be] he that confirmeth not [all] the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Deuteronomy 27:26
Does that include illegal occupation?
17 “Cursed is anyone who moves their neighbor’s boundary stone.”

Then all the people shall say, “Amen!”

And does Deut 27:26 also include justice for palestinians

19 “Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.”

Then all the people shall say, “Amen!”

As i am reading the chapter would mean to 'curse israel' for breaking the laws.
 

Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
Straw man. You're leaving out the part about agreement.

Cursed [be] he that confirmeth not [all] the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Deuteronomy 27:26
Yeah, so I wouldn't take their agreement seriously considering that they were afraid that god was going to kill them.

Exodus 20:19: ".... let not God speak to us, lest we die"

God was basically holding a "gun" to their head when they were by the mount, displaying lightning and thunder before them. They were so scared that they made a golden calf representing him so that they could worship him through it because they thought Moses had died.

If one thinks of it, Israel going through the wilderness is filled with God strong arming them. If they didnt do what he wanted either their first born would die (this is already back in egypt), they would suffer plagues or get destroyed. An agreement under distress is no true agreement at all.
 

Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
That al aqsa is the 1400 yr old building on the mount. UNESCO heritage site now, just for it's age.

That location is what the zionist require.

The Israelis set for new Jewish temple on Al-Aqsa site

View attachment 86148
France 24
https://www.france24.com › France 24 › Live news



Jun 5, 2023 — Founded in 1987, the institute aims to rebuild the temple, training choirs and clerics and making objects for use in religious rites.



That location is why Israel is in palestine and not on a tropical island with streets paved in gold where all Jews would migrate too.

But the majority of Jews on this earth will not nor will move to israel.

View attachment 86149
View attachment 86150
Why Are There Jewish Anti-Zionists? | JewishBoston


Here in the west, Jews are not biased to blindly support Israel or zionism.

They know what is wrong and willing to turn on their own families to do what is right!
And this is exactly why I take issue with people saying being anti zionist is being anti semitic. As if all jews agree with Zionism and as if arabs themselves arent semitic either.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Yeah, so I wouldn't take their agreement seriously considering that they were afraid that god was going to kill them.
Threats are the basis of the duress which would void an agreement. Fear resulting from uncertainty isn't the same thing as a threat.

Exodus 20:19: ".... let not God speak to us, lest we die"
The fear was for their benefit. The fear associated with duress is the fear of harm of loss.

And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not Elohim speak with us, lest we die.
And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for Elohim is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
Exodus 20:19-20

God was basically holding a "gun" to their head when they were by the mount, displaying lightning and thunder before them. They were so scared that they made a golden calf representing him so that they could worship him through it because they thought Moses had died.
There's nothing in the text that would indicate that they made the calf because of fear.

And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us elohim, which shall go before us; for [as for] this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
Exodus 32:1

If one thinks of it, Israel going through the wilderness is filled with God strong arming them. If they didnt do what he wanted either their first born would die (this is already back in egypt), they would suffer plagues or get destroyed. An agreement under distress is no true agreement at all.
The death of the firstborn and the plagues were against Egypt, not Israel.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
And this is exactly why I take issue with people saying being anti zionist is being anti semitic. As if all jews agree with Zionism and as if arabs themselves arent semitic either.
The word semite is from the Hebrew word shem, meaning name. The title 'HaShem' (the name) is used to refer to YHWH, so accusing someone of being antisemitic can be interpreted as accusing them of acting against YHWH or against against his name. The word 'Jew' is a corruption of Judah, which is from YHWDH.

And she conceived again, and bare a son: and she said, Now will I praise the LORD: therefore she called his name Judah; and left bearing.
Genesis 29:35, KJV

the LORD = YHWH
Judah = YHWDH
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
Yeah, so I wouldn't take their agreement seriously considering that they were afraid that god was going to kill them.

Exodus 20:19: ".... let not God speak to us, lest we die"

God was basically holding a "gun" to their head when they were by the mount, displaying lightning and thunder before them. They were so scared that they made a golden calf representing him so that they could worship him through it because they thought Moses had died.

If one thinks of it, Israel going through the wilderness is filled with God strong arming them. If they didnt do what he wanted either their first born would die (this is already back in egypt), they would suffer plagues or get destroyed. An agreement under distress is no true agreement at all.
If you read further on that calf story, moses killed 3000 for that event. Friends, family etc..


Ex 32:27 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’” 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
And this is exactly why I take issue with people saying being anti zionist is being anti semitic. As if all jews agree with Zionism and as if arabs themselves arent semitic either.
Good thinking on both fronts.

What i am coming to realize is the zionist are the fringe group and the Jew are keeping the rules over idolatry for a location/temple.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
If you read further on that calf story, moses killed 3000 for that event. Friends, family etc..


Ex 32:27 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’” 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died
Who reneged on the deal?

And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that YHWH hath said will we do, and be obedient.
Exodus 24:7
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
Who reneged on the deal?

And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that YHWH hath said will we do, and be obedient.
Exodus 24:7
Israel's hand has been caught in the cookie jar.

6 “‘See how each of the princes of Israel who are in you uses his power to shed blood. 7 In you they have treated father and mother with contempt; in you they have oppressed the foreigner and mistreated the fatherless and the widow.



Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory​

1703601288234.jpeg
Global Centre for the Responsibility to Protect
https://www.globalr2p.org › countries › israel-and-the...




Israel must lift its blockade on Gaza and cease illegal settlement-related activity and apartheid policies. It should also end the occupation of Palestinian



Breaking the commands, prophecies and now existing in the current
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Israel's hand has been caught in the cookie jar.

6 “‘See how each of the princes of Israel who are in you uses his power to shed blood. 7 In you they have treated father and mother with contempt; in you they have oppressed the foreigner and mistreated the fatherless and the widow.



Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory

View attachment 86198
Global Centre for the Responsibility to Protect
https://www.globalr2p.org › countries › israel-and-the...



Israel must lift its blockade on Gaza and cease illegal settlement-related activity and apartheid policies. It should also end the occupation of Palestinian



Breaking the commands, prophecies and now existing in the current
The prophecy includes the following as a consequence:

And I will scatter thee among the heathen, and disperse thee in the countries, and will consume thy filthiness out of thee.
Ezekiel 22:15
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
The prophecy includes the following as a consequence:

And I will scatter thee among the heathen, and disperse thee in the countries, and will consume thy filthiness out of thee.
Ezekiel 22:15
Since the filth still exists apparently thy will has not been done.

19 Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: ‘Because you have all become dross, I will gather you into Jerusalem. 20 As silver, copper, iron, lead and tin are gathered into a furnace to be melted with a fiery blast, so will I gather you in my anger and my wrath and put you inside the city and melt you. 21 I will gather you and I will blow on you with my fiery wrath, and you will be melted inside her. 22 As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside her, and you will know that I the Lord have poured out my wrath on you.’”

Same chapter left undone.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
That al aqsa is the 1400 yr old building on the mount. UNESCO heritage site now, just for it's age.

That location is what the zionist require.

The Israelis set for new Jewish temple on Al-Aqsa site

View attachment 86148
France 24
https://www.france24.com › France 24 › Live news



Jun 5, 2023 — Founded in 1987, the institute aims to rebuild the temple, training choirs and clerics and making objects for use in religious rites.



That location is why Israel is in palestine and not on a tropical island with streets paved in gold where all Jews would migrate too.

But the majority of Jews on this earth will not nor will move to israel.

View attachment 86149
View attachment 86150
Why Are There Jewish Anti-Zionists? | JewishBoston


Here in the west, Jews are not biased to blindly support Israel or zionism.

They know what is wrong and willing to turn on their own families to do what is right!
There is no consensus whatsoever when to rebuild the Temple, but it's pretty safe to say it won't be anytime soon.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
There is no consensus whatsoever when to rebuild the Temple, but it's pretty safe to say it won't be anytime soon.
i know, but the fringe want it. They are even taking in donations specifically for the purpose.

Temple institute.
Rabbi richman and glick. Glick incites the settlers that encroach on the location. Check the amount of violence that occurs about every other week for the last 2 decades.
Rabbi glick was shot over the attempt about 10-12 yrs ago, if my memory is half way working. If you need me to look it up, i can.

My point is an has been since on RF, ENDING that pursuit is the ONLY way to stop the violence. I even pointed out that before 10/7 the very week prior, there was another attack by the fringe group that require it.

Now I find this:

1703637383673.jpeg
1703637383819.pngMiddle East Monitor
Palestine accuses Israel of exploiting war on Gaza 'to seize control of the Al-Aqsa Mosque'
The Palestinian Foreign Ministry accused the Israeli government on Friday of exploiting the world's preoccupation with the Israeli war on...
.
3 days ago
Israeli settlers mark Jewish holiday of Hanukkah in Al-Aqsa

It is not a one time thing, the attacks by the fringe, the rogue, the rude are constant:

1703637592487.jpeg
1703637592596.pngThe Cradle
Hundreds of extremist Israeli settlers storm Al-Aqsa Mosque for Jewish holidays
Settler incursions into Al-Aqsa under the protection of the Israeli police have heightened since the start of the Jewish holidays,...
.
Sep 25, 2023


When will Jews stand up to END the attempts and put them rogue in prison?

When will palesitnians have justice for the acts of the terrorist?
Why doesn't israel enforce status quo?

 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
i know, but the fringe want it. They are even taking in donations specifically for the purpose.
But they form a small minority. Many of the Orthodox believe that only the Messiah could order the Temple to be rebuilt.

The rest of your post I just ignored as it's not related to what I posted.
 
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