Are you Certain There is no God?

[mikkel_the_dane]

proposition
2a : an expression in language or signs of something that can be believed, doubted, or denied or is either true or false

One "can" choose to accept one of these positions or one can choose not to. I choose not to accept any of these positions about the proposition on God.

Or unknown. Don't fall for the duality of true or false. There is something the 3rd one. It can't be determined to be neither true nor false, because it is unknown.

 

[Love God]

OK, I am a bit reluctant since usually creationists are all guilty of ultracrepidarianism. And they tend to be scientific illiterate, while keeping the arrogance of pontificating about things they never studied seriously. They would not be creationists, otherwise.

But I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Therefore, I need to set my parameters right, in order to give an answer: what is your knowledge of modern physics. For instance, relativity, quantum mechanics, inflation theory, etc? For instance, do you understand how permanent new matter can be generated by vacuum fluctuations near a strong gravitational source?


These are just nice stories in an ancient book written by people with vastly more knowledge of goats than basic physics, you know? Also creationists. I would not take them too seriously as explanation of anything.

Ciao

- viole

Upon looking at the definitions of what it is that you present:

Werner Heisenberg’s ‘uncertainty principle’...* not looking good so far...

Then

Since they are created spontaneously without a source of energy, vacuum fluctuations and virtual particles are said to violate the conservation of energy. *

Are said by whom?...

This is theoretically allowable because the particles annihilate each other within a time limit determined by the uncertainty principle. *
Back to that again...

However, these theoretically useful virtual particles are not directly observable.[4][3] The uncertainty principle states the uncertainty in energy and time can be related by[5]

, where 1/2ħ ≈ 5,27286×10−35 Js. *

Talk about blind faith!


And it only gets worse from there. The article goes on to speak like their theories are ‘facts’.

Which last time I understood the definition of above high-lighted words, they hadn’t changed to mean anything but theory, observable, uncertainty, and not...

So thanks for the insults. All really smart people are the same. They talk down to whom they view to be mentally challenged. Always the same.

You have yet to answer the origin of the energy needed to change the fluctuations, or the vacuums, or the elementary particles needed for fluctuations in the first place.

I would enjoy science so much more if it was not about trying to prove everything came from nothing...

Joy



“He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭26:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now that is the ‘nothing’ all should be looking for...

Quantum stuff quoted from: *
Quantum fluctuation - Wikipedia

 

[viole]

So thanks for the insults. All really smart people are the same. They talk down to whom they view to be mentally challenged. Always the same.

I never said you are mentally challenged. I simply suspect you have no clue of these things.
I have no clue of many things, like the history of medieval Chinese theatre, for instance, and I do not consider myself mentally challenged.

The only difference is that I have the humility to not pontificate about medieval Chinese theatre...

So, my recommendation to creationists is always the same: be happy with the tenets of your religion: prophets taking a cab to heaven on a flying horse, or prophets taking a cruise inside a big fish, or whatever miracles your religion entails, and avoid to burn yourself with science, or other things, that destroy a literal reading of your Scriptures immediately.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Love God]

I never said you are mentally challenged. I simply suspect you have no clue of these things.
I have no clue of many things, like the history of medieval Chinese theatre, for instance, and I do not consider myself mentally challenged.

The only difference is that I have the humility to not pontificate about medieval Chinese theatre...

So, my recommendation to creationists is always the same: be happy with the tenets of your religion: prophets taking a cab to heaven on a flying horse, or prophets taking a cruise inside a big fish, or whatever miracles your religion entails, and avoid to burn yourself with science, or other things, that destroy a literal reading of your Scriptures immediately.

Ciao

- viole

you are doing exactly those things of which you accuse me!

1. what is religion? If you asked me if I were religious, I would unequivocally and emphatically state a resounding ‘NO’.

2. you ignored the problems that I pointed out about science finding the ‘theory du jour’ and then going on about it as ‘fact’. Last time I looked in a dictionary theory and fact had different definitions.

3. and you were insulting my intelligence, very well I might add. However cleverly you were trying to conceal it.

but it’s all okay. I have been attacked nonstop by my own spouse for getting saved. Most of my very religious family has rejected me.
None of it has stopped me from loving Jesus and learning more about him.

while true I do not keep up with much specific sciences, math, or studies and research, I do try and engage with those who do understand and that do.

I find what other’s know fascinating. I like to know what drives people in their lives. Whether it be art, or books, or religion... you get the picture.

for me, it was difficult to find any focus without meaning. When being taught that there is nothing after this world, that there is no God, it really bothered me.
I endured all of the bullying and ostracizing why?

do people really ‘get away’ with their behaviours? Is guilt something that needs ‘evolved’ out of us?

It is a shame that the very idea of discussing the possibilities has become repugnant. That only what ‘modern’ society dictates as ‘acceptable’ is all that can be discussed.

what really bothers me is not whether God is real or not. But the oppression that happens when one claims he is real by those who claim he isn’t.

my belief that we all answer for everything that we have ever done, right/wrong good/evil, has brought me so much thought, so much fear, but so much relief that I cannot begin to explain it without a dissertation on it...

I was hoping for more discussion in a religious forum, rather than the usual rhetoric. Shutting out different beliefs from one’s own is usually what drives the ruling powers that be...
the art of talking to another human about who, what, why, where, when, how they are is truly lost.
Offended is the state of mankind now.

I appreciate our correspondence. It has been my pleasure. It saddens me that I did not get to any understanding of you personally. Why the idea of God is not open for discussion with you.

maybe another day.

much love in Christ Jesus!
And all peace and

Joy


“Make me to understand the way of thy precepts: so shall I talk of thy wondrous works.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭119:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I believe, 100%, my whole heart, that most ordinary people are just looking for meaning in their lives... the struggle is real.

 

[viole]

believe, 100%, my whole heart, that most ordinary people are just looking for meaning in their lives... the struggle is real.

Of course. And that is why they make that meaning up. They call it God.

Seek, and you shall find. And if you don't find, make it up.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Love God]

Of course. And that is why they make that meaning up. They call it God.

Seek, and you shall find. And if you don't find, make it up.

Ciao

- viole

Miss Viole,

what have you found to be the meaning of your life? What is your purpose for existing?

how do you know right and wrong?

is there a standard of right and wrong?

if there is no standard... do your own thing and don’t judge me!

well. Go ahead and judge me. Heads up: in the end, the only judgment that matters is God’s. And his judgment is just and true. Not any of that perverted judgment like man’s!

Joy


“Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people:
and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers:
they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet;
and thou shalt know that I am the Lord:
for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭49:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[viole]

Miss Viole,

Thank you for missing me.

what have you found to be the meaning of your life? What is your purpose for existing?

Well, I have a lot of purposes that make me happy. Pizza, for instance.

how do you know right and wrong?

I have no idea. In the same way, I have no idea why I like the above mentioned food so much. I guess we have some pre-programmed moral instinct that is biology driven (e.g. we almost all agree that burning children alive is not good), and a cultural, more memetic component, that can vary with time and culture.

After all, don't Christians defend the (today) ridiculous morality in the OT by saying that at the time it was OK? So, your alleged divinity does the same.

s there a standard of right and wrong?

I ask you. My Hindu friend told me that his standard dictates that humans should be classified in castes at birth. My Christian friend tells me that her standard says the opposite: all humans are equal at birth.

And this is just one example of conflicting moral standards, which is the same as saying that theism has no standard either.

well. Go ahead and judge me. Heads up: in the end, the only judgment that matters is God’s. And his judgment is just and true. Not any of that perverted judgment like man’s!

I judge you only in the case you need to keep your faith to know what morality is. Because that is disingenuous. Unless you really believe that if you lost your faith tomorrow, you will turn into Jack the Ripper, or something. In that case, I would suggest you keep believing whatever you believe.

“Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people:
and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers:
they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet;
and thou shalt know that I am the Lord:
for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭49:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Ciao

- viole

 

[Love God]

Thank you for missing me.


Well, I have a lot of purposes that make me happy. Pizza, for instance.


I have no idea. In the same way, I have no idea why I like the above mentioned food so much. I guess we have some pre-programmed moral instinct that is biology driven (e.g. we almost all agree that burning children alive is not good), and a cultural, more memetic component, that can vary with time and culture.

After all, don't Christians defend the (today) ridiculous morality in the OT by saying that at the time it was OK? So, your alleged divinity does the same.


I ask you. My Hindu friend told me that his standard dictates that humans should be classified in castes at birth. My Christian friend tells me that her standard says the opposite: all humans are equal at birth.

And this is just one example of conflicting moral standards, which is the same as saying that theism has no standard either.


I judge you only in the case you need to keep your faith to know what morality is. Because that is disingenuous. Unless you really believe that if you lost your faith tomorrow, you will turn into Jack the Ripper, or something. In that case, I would suggest you keep believing whatever you believe.



When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Ciao

- viole

are you telling me that the sum total of your existence is to love pizza?

 

[viole]

are you telling me that the sum total of your existence is to love pizza?

No, I just made you an example, among many. And at least pizza exists and makes me happy. And who are you to decide what constitutes purpose or not?

Your turn: are you telling me that the sum total of your existence is to worship an imaginary being?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Love God]

No, I just made you an example, among many. And at least pizza exists and makes me happy. And who are you to decide what constitutes purpose or not?

Your turn: are you telling me that the sum total of your existence is to worship an imaginary being?

Ciao

- viole

touche.

I have to admit, God is the sum total of my life!


“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If not for God, none of this would exist. Not even you, sad to say.

just because someone denies God, doesn’t make him nonexistent.


“The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭19:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

people deny God’s existence for many reasons, but if I had to bet on the number one reason why, it is because they do not want to be judged!

most people ‘feel’ a judgment is eminent but do all kinds of crazy semantics to avoid the ‘feeling’.

I didn’t put that felling there either! I just know it exists because I deal with judgment thing, too.

we all do...

and God’s judgment is the only one that matters!
So people try to convince themselves that there is ‘no God’.
no God, no judgment...
But that pesky feeling of judgment continues...


“He is the Lord our God; his judgments are in all the earth.”
‭‭1 Chronicles‬ ‭16:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Judgment awaits!

either one goes before God with Jesus as your advocate or you stand alone before a just God who does not pervert justice...

and that is the state of all mankind.

Joy

A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client...

 

[viole]

touche.

I have to admit, God is the sum total of my life!


“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If not for God, none of this would exist. Not even you, sad to say.

just because someone denies God, doesn’t make him nonexistent.


“The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭19:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

people deny God’s existence for many reasons, but if I had to bet on the number one reason why, it is because they do not want to be judged!

most people ‘feel’ a judgment is eminent but do all kinds of crazy semantics to avoid the ‘feeling’.

I didn’t put that felling there either! I just know it exists because I deal with judgment thing, too.

we all do...

and God’s judgment is the only one that matters!
So people try to convince themselves that there is ‘no God’.
no God, no judgment...
But that pesky feeling of judgment continues...


“He is the Lord our God; his judgments are in all the earth.”
‭‭1 Chronicles‬ ‭16:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Judgment awaits!

either one goes before God with Jesus as your advocate or you stand alone before a just God who does not pervert justice...

and that is the state of all mankind.

Joy

A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client...

Thanks you for the warning.

However, I doubt I will lose my sleep over the judgement of Someone who has the same evidence of existing as Mother Goose.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Love God]

Thanks you for the warning.

However, I doubt I will lose my sleep over the judgement of Someone who has the same evidence of existing as Mother Goose.

Ciao

- viole

you state that as though you have proof of no God.

how do you do away with the statistics of the
bible?
*my reply has been truncated *...
...

 

[viole]

you state that as though you have proof of no God.

how do you do away with the statistics of the
bible?
*my reply has been truncated *...
...

Not at all. I simply said that your God is ontologically like Mother Goose, for what we know in terms of evidence and such.

You would have a point if we knew for sure that Mother Goose does not exist. But we don't.

So, Mother Goose and your God are on the same level of evidenced, and it would not be rational to embrace one and reject the other. Or assume that one exists, and the other does not.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Love God]

Not at all. I simply said that your God is ontologically like Mother Goose, for what we know in terms of evidence and such.

You would have a point if we knew for sure that Mother Goose does not exist. But we don't.

So, Mother Goose and your God are on the same level of evidenced, and it would not be rational to embrace one and reject the other. Or assume that one exists, and the other does not.

Ciao

- viole

I might try again...
:O

see what happens...
Here is one idea for you:
There are 48 prophesies on one man’s birth, life, death given 400-2000 years before he was born.
All 48 came to pass.

can you give me 10 details on one birth in your own lifetime and all 10 prophesies come to pass?
Can anyone?

I have heard the odds of 48 prophesies coming to pass on this wise:

you go out and cover the entire surface of the moon 4” deep in numbered coins.

you tell me to go find the coin numbered 6,890,674,385,123.

I pick the coin up first try.

the odds of that happening are as close to nil as nil is...

So how do you do away with those odds?
If it were an horse race, you’d bet on it every time!
and never lose!
You’d be rich!

but you will brush it off in some way that makes sense to you.

and that is only one matter upon thousands that must be ‘done away with’ to make God nonexistent.

I have stated before that a video of God creating could exist, there would be those that would deny it.

mankind is stubborn like that. Nothing new there...

Joy


“Furthermore the Lord spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭9:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[viole]

I might try again...
:O

see what happens...
Here is one idea for you:
There are 48 prophesies on one man’s birth, life, death given 400-2000 years before he was born.
All 48 came to pass.

can you give me 10 details on one birth in your own lifetime and all 10 prophesies come to pass?
Can anyone?

I have heard the odds of 48 prophesies coming to pass on this wise:

you go out and cover the entire surface of the moon 4” deep in numbered coins.

you tell me to go find the coin numbered 6,890,674,385,123.

I pick the coin up first try.

the odds of that happening are as close to nil as nil is...

So how do you do away with those odds?
If it were an horse race, you’d bet on it every time!
and never lose!
You’d be rich!

but you will brush it off in some way that makes sense to you.

and that is only one matter upon thousands that must be ‘done away with’ to make God nonexistent.

I have stated before that a video of God creating could exist, there would be those that would deny it.

mankind is stubborn like that. Nothing new there...

Joy


“Furthermore the Lord spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭9:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What prophecies? The main one, the one related to Jesus as a Messiah, is not even recognized as fulfilled by believers sharing the same Holy Book.

and if you do not agree among yourselves, Scriptures experts, how can you expect to convince skeptics?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Love God]

What prophecies? The main one, the one related to Jesus as a Messiah, is not even recognized as fulfilled by believers sharing the same Holy Book.

and if you do not agree among yourselves, Scriptures experts, how can you expect to convince skeptics?

Ciao

- viole

indeed. That creates a problem.

but any looking for excuses will cling to that exact argument so as not to check for themselves.

if I was skeptical of the bible, and I was!, I used that same premise.
The bible is full of errors.
The bible was written by man.
No one could really know.
God didn’t make me just to send me to hell...

scholars are among the most distrust worthy.
Scholars tend to demand respect just because they are so smart and you are not...
The really smart are pretty quick to dismiss anything that they disagree with or that rumples their feathers.

High IQ’s do not necessarily mean high morals. Or high ‘decency’... or whatever you want to call good behaviour?

smart people have the same tendencies as the dumb people; lying, cheating, stealing, killing, so on...
Humans are humans no matter their IQ...

and if I say there are 48 prophesies that came to pass, you did not check me to see if what I said were true.
You jumped away from my claims by hiding behind other’s sayings, and I would venture to say that, you never checked their statement(s) either.
Their statement(s) just lined up with your beliefs better...

So does the bible really prophesy about Jesus? What of the 48? Are they in the bible?

too much work for you to check on your own. Much easier to pass it off by parroting other non believers who, may or may not have, checked for themselves...

Most people believe or disbelieve on face value... it is easier that way...

Joy


“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

study... such a dreadful thing to do. I’d rather watch the ol’ telly...

 

[viole]

You jumped away from my claims by hiding behind other’s sayings, and I would venture to say that, you never checked their statement(s) either.
Their statement(s) just lined up with your beliefs better...

Their statement is very clear. The prophecy about the Messiah has not come to pass.
And they are not scholars. They are the closest we can think of in terms of being direct witnesses of those events.

So, why should we go through the rest when something so big, the very basis of your entire worldview, is disputed among the people that studied the common parts of scriptures?

It is like asking me to trust, say, a mathematical book allegedly full of truths, when we know mathematicians are not sure if some basic parts are true.
When a book assumes truths everywhere, and you find one hole, especially such a big one, you can toss it without any doubt (and without losing further time).

Ciao

- viole

 

[Love God]

Their statement is very clear. The prophecy about the Messiah has not come to pass.
And they are not scholars. They are the closest we can think of in terms of being direct witnesses of those events.

So, why should we go through the rest when something so big, the very basis of your entire worldview, is disputed among the people that studied the common parts of scriptures?

It is like asking me to trust, say, a mathematical book allegedly full of truths, when we know mathematicians are not sure if some basic parts are true.
When a book assumes truths everywhere, and you find one hole, especially such a big one, you can toss it without any doubt (and without losing further time).

Ciao

- viole

but what ‘hole’ have you found?

again, you are relying upon someone else’s sayings?
How do you know that someone else isn’t lying?
Did you follow their research to verify that what they said is an hole, to see if it is an hole?

what, exactly, did YOU find wrong in your research?
I don’t care about some anonymous ‘they’ who give no specifics.

I don’t know about you, but my experience in this life has been full of people who will say anything at all, mostly for money. Look at the telly!
People on television do and say anything for money! Singers. Sing anything for money. Writers. Write anything for money.

There are so many people who if you say up they will say down. For no reason other than to be contrary!

how do you know when someone is pulling your leg?

Are your sources verified and you know this because you have checked their studies? And with what have you used as the standard for measuring their studies?

that is what I would like to understand!

All peace and much

Joy


“But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭10:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[viole]

but what ‘hole’ have you found?

again, you are relying upon someone else’s sayings?
How do you know that someone else isn’t lying?
Did you follow their research to verify that what they said is an hole, to see if it is an hole?

what, exactly, did YOU find wrong in your research?
I don’t care about some anonymous ‘they’ who give no specifics.

I don’t know about you, but my experience in this life has been full of people who will say anything at all, mostly for money. Look at the telly!
People on television do and say anything for money! Singers. Sing anything for money. Writers. Write anything for money.

There are so many people who if you say up they will say down. For no reason other than to be contrary!

how do you know when someone is pulling your leg?

Are your sources verified and you know this because you have checked their studies? And with what have you used as the standard for measuring their studies?

that is what I would like to understand!

All peace and much

Joy


“But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭10:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

my sources are the Jews. If they did not buy your Messiah prophecy for the last 2000 years, how do you intend to convince a skeptic?

i would suggest you guys achieve an agreement between yourselves, before you even try to sell your product to outsiders.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Love God]

my sources are the Jews. If they did not buy your Messiah prophecy for the last 2000 years, how do you intend to convince a skeptic?

i would suggest you guys achieve an agreement between yourselves, before you even try to sell your product to outsiders.

Ciao



- viole

That is the wisest reply of any person yet!

wow. Very astute on your part!


“What advantage then hath the Jew?
or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way:
chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The scriptures were given to the Jews.
Indeed.

Have you studied the OT much? I am curious what YOU understand from your research?

It would be helpful if you would be so kind as to share your understanding of the OT? Briefly, of course...

Please and thanks

Joy

“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord:
though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow;
though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬