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Are You Ever Wrong?
- Thread starter w00t
- Start date
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
I don't see how admitting that a doctrine of your faith could be wrong necessitates saying that God could be wrong. Doctrine and God are not the same.
Also, as I have said before, doubt is not the opposite of faith. Absolute certainty is the opposite of faith. If you are standing outside and it is pouring rain, you don't need faith to believe that it is raining. Faith is what you stand on even tho you can't know for certain. Faith is trust. And it is not, as some who are hostile to faith say, "blind trust." It is trust based on a reason, whatever that reason may be. Faith exists in the area in between not knowing at all and knowing with absolute certainty.
Kungfuzed
Student Nurse
I guess that all depends. Some churches allow a great deal of flexibility in beliefs and others are much more rigid. Some believe that the scriptures are infallible and unchangeable, and that the leaders of their church are representatives of God, and to question the scriptures or the leaders is to question God. At least from my previous experience, admitting that one could be wrong is at the very least very taboo if not an act of heresy, especially when it is expected not merely to have faith, but to actually know that the religion is true. I agree with your point though, at least that's how it should be anyway.
blackout
Violet.
Rolling_Stone
Well-Known Member
Nothing I say or believe can be completely true, but nothing I say or do is without at least some measure of truth.
In more practical terms, I'm wrong more often than I'm right, but I resent being told I'm being "arrogant" and "intolerant" when I state my beliefs. Heck, my wife is Catholic, one son is a Baptist, my other son is an atheist and my sister is Mormon. I'm going to hell, an apostate, a fool, and a son of perdition. Yet, somehow, we all get along fine and miss each other's company when we're apart.
In more practical terms, I'm wrong more often than I'm right, but I resent being told I'm being "arrogant" and "intolerant" when I state my beliefs. Heck, my wife is Catholic, one son is a Baptist, my other son is an atheist and my sister is Mormon. I'm going to hell, an apostate, a fool, and a son of perdition. Yet, somehow, we all get along fine and miss each other's company when we're apart.
Rolling_Stone
Well-Known Member
Maybe you should get your understanding of "faith" from somewhere other than lowbrow theology. For example, read Pope John Paul II's Fides et ratio or go to your library and listen to some CD's about Augustine (Science and Religion put out by the Teaching Company devotes a lecture to him.)
I disagree. Certainty (yaqeen) is not the opposite of faith but it's the highest level of faith. I don't have to see rain to be certain that it's raining. Certainty has different levels; If i was inside my house and you told me that it's raining outside or if i saw signs of rain on you, i can be certain that it's raining based on my trust in you and what you told me or on my reasoning and this state is called "`Ilmul-Yaqeen" (the knowledge of certainty). If i opened the window or the door and i saw the rain then i stepped to a higher level which is "`Ayanul-Yaqeen" (the eye of certainty). If i went outside and the drops of rain touched my skin then this is the highest level of certainty which is "Haqqul-Yaqeen" (the reality of certainty).
The same here; i can be certain that there will be a day of judgment, heaven and hell although i haven't seen this heaven or hell.
Faith is affirmation in the heart and consistence of one's deeds with what lies in the heart.
I don't see how faith and doubt could meet.
Hehehe...you reminded me of that guy who keeps telling people how humble he is!! Lol!
St Paul had a good line in that! He called himself the "worst of all sinners", but somehow that didn't sound very convincing as if he didn't really believe that to be so!!
People who say they are humble usually aren't 
gnomon
Well-Known Member
Some Christians on forums such as this seem to think that they have the right of it and everyone not sharing their view is completely wrong. Don't you have an doubts at all that you just might have got it all wrong?
One thing I am very good at is doubt! I could be completely and utterly misguided in my sceptism about the Bible being anything to do with God! God help me if I am wrong; I better check out asbestos underwear as I am heading for a firey eternity!
Well, I'm not a Christian but God
knows am I ever wrong on certain things. I've tasted my shoes enough on this forum to think about opening my own line of foot eating restaurants.Well, I'm not a Christian but God
I post on the BBC Christian Message Board, there are some characters there who KNOW everyone else is completely and utterly wrong, and of course they are always right!
gnomon
Well-Known Member
I'm curious. How is one a Christian agnostic? You can PM me the details to keep the thread on subject if you like. I'm always interested in why people believe certain things and how they develop those beliefs. A Christian agnostic is a new one to me.
Does Christian agnostic mean that you believe Jesus existed but doubt He was God, that he was just a very charismatic man? I am curious, too.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
That's nothing. I know Christian atheists.
Actually, I am far more "Christian" than many of the Christians that I know (but that's because I tend to hang with liberal Christians and not conservatives). As I said, one can't go by labels. One has to know what the label means to a person to understand why they choose the ones they do. So I too am curious as to what the label "Christian agnostic" means to you, Tangnefedd.