Are you free?

[zenzero]

friends,
Prostration is but Surrender of the Ego.
Everyone who is part of the whole is free.
Everyone who is an ego which stands sepeerately can never be free.
Love & rgds

 

[a_student]

I am a Christian. I follow the advice of the Psalmist who said: "O give thanks unto the Lord, for he is good, for his mercy endureth for ever." I have a promise from God of eternal life. I am free from death and hell. I do not have to pray, I do not have to go to church, I don't have to tell you that this freedom is freely offered, I am free to though. So many other religious and moral people work hard day and night for some assurance from God. They pray for hours, they go on long fasts and pilgramages. They beat themselves to atone for sins. But the prophets say "he was wounded for our iniquities, and bruised for our transgressions. The chastisment of our peace was upon him." And for those who worked so hard for salvations with every human effort and wisdom he gave a positive message. "Come unto me all ye that heavy laden and I will give you rest." I would like to tell all those working so hard for salvation, "don't do the work that Jesus has already done for you. Rest in his salvation." If you don't you will spend the rest of your life working for an unreachable standard and have no freedom.

Warning: this link has graphic content!

(Don't try to do what Christ has already done for you!!!!!!!)

If someone dies for your sins, then aren't you indebted to them? Without proper action on your behalf, what validates this promise from day to day?

 

[Sonic247]

No, it should be natural to be thankful though. It's validated by the word of God. If we Christians say "We need Christ's action, but we need ours too." We are really saying "Christ's actions are insufficient."

 

[idea]

Well, they do climb a mountain...

I like climbing mountains, not on hands and knees, it's better standing up with the wind in your hair. It feels good to make your legs hurt a little and push yourself a bit. Therapeutic - it clears your mind and makes me happy. It is peaceful up there. I understand why so many people in the Bible climb up mountains to pray. They are a holy place where you can be free.

Why would anyone ruin a nice healthy hike?

 

[Hema]

Well, the hindu here in malaysia (where i currently live) have sort of festival where they do the same excact thing. That makes me wonder where those guys got this method from?

I saw a documentary on TV where they go into a trance where they don't feel pain and they stick pointed metal rods into the sides of their mouths. :cover:

Anyway, to respond to the OP...in Hinduism we are really the Soul which can never be harmed or exploited...so we are free.

 

[a_student]

No, it should be natural to be thankful though. It's validated by the word of God. If we Christians say "We need Christ's action, but we need ours too." We are really saying "Christ's actions are insufficient."

How do you show thankfulness? Can one who accepts Christ and then acts immorally still expect this promise? Or can transgressions show a lack of gratefulness, thus nulling the promise?

 

[Sonic247]

I try to show thankfulness by spending time with God, but I really don't appreciate him as much as he deserves. Someone could act immorally, it would cost them a lot but not their salvation, David prophesied of this; I think he says it better than I could-

Also will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven. If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
(Psalm 89:27-34)

Firstborn: Jesus(Higher than the kings of the earth)
his seed/children- Christians
covenant- the gospel

 

[idea]

No, it should be natural to be thankful though. It's validated by the word of God. If we Christians say "We need Christ's action, but we need ours too." We are really saying "Christ's actions are insufficient."

We cannot appreciate Christ's actions until we intimately understand what He has done for us. The closer we can follow in his footsteps, the more we will understand who he is, and the more we come to appreciate him.

I remember the first time I was in charge of Thanksgiving dinner. I did not appreciate everything that my mother and grandmother had done in years past until I did it myself. Only after I did it did I realize all that they had done... Same with becoming a parent. You don't fully appreciate your own parents until you become a parent yourself.

we cannot appreciate his actions without our own actions. You can't fully understand something you have not experienced. The gospel is meant to be experienced, not just read.

 

[Sonic247]

You are still a son or daughter before you can ever be a parent, whether your a parent or not doesn't change that. If you had good parents it may inspire you to have a family of your own but salvation means being a child of God, not a parent.

 

[a_student]

So this covenant cannot be broken no matter what? What if one denounces their religion? Or just generally lives a life of sin (constantly lying, cheating, stealing, etc.)? I know people who call themselves "Christians" but they never go to Church, have never picked up a Bible, or done anything associated with Christianity other than celebrate Christmas (which isn't even a real Christian holiday), or get a cross tattooed on their arm. Is that person's reward the same as a devout follower?

 

[Riverwolf]

So this covenant cannot be broken no matter what? What if one denounces their religion? Or just generally lives a life of sin (constantly lying, cheating, stealing, etc.)? I know people who call themselves "Christians" but they never go to Church, have never picked up a Bible, or done anything associated with Christianity other than celebrate Christmas (which isn't even a real Christian holiday), or get a cross tattooed on their arm. Is that person's reward the same as a devout follower?

Depends on what they believe is necessary to get into Heaven.

 

[idea]

So this covenant cannot be broken no matter what? What if one denounces their religion? Or just generally lives a life of sin (constantly lying, cheating, stealing, etc.)? I know people who call themselves "Christians" but they never go to Church, have never picked up a Bible, or done anything associated with Christianity other than celebrate Christmas (which isn't even a real Christian holiday), or get a cross tattooed on their arm. Is that person's reward the same as a devout follower?[/quote]

1 Cor 15:
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.

sun, moon, stars - different glories for different people. Nothing wrong with different glories... I am not the president of the US - prestigious to be sure, but I genuinly don't want that position. Everyone will be where they are comfortable being.

You are still a son or daughter before you can ever be a parent, whether your a parent or not doesn't change that. If you had good parents it may inspire you to have a family of your own but salvation means being a child of God, not a parent.

I agree - we are God's children, but we are being prepared to be parents, not just in this life, but in the next one too. He is not just raising children, He is raising parents too. It takes both perspectives to appreciate the big picture.

 

[a_student]

Depends on what they believe is necessary to get into Heaven.

So you're saying it is only one's belief that counts? But don't actions manifest our beliefs? If all we have to do is "believe" then what is the point of living life? Once I believe can't I just kill myself and save myself from a life of struggle? No. Beliefs are validated by actions. Your actions will show what you truly believe.

sun, moon, stars - different glories for different people. Nothing wrong with different glories... I am not the president of the US - prestigious to be sure, but I genuinly don't want that position. Everyone will be where they are comfortable being.

So in the eyes of a Christian, is a Christian who sins all day, every day better than a Jew who is more "Christ-like?" And by "Christ-like" I just mean a righteous person who adheres to God's Law. So this person hasn't excepted Christ as their Lord and Saviour but has a "heart of gold." What glory does he receive for a life of righteousness?

 

[Riverwolf]

So you're saying it is only one's belief that counts? But don't actions manifest our beliefs? If all we have to do is "believe" then what is the point of living life? Once I believe can't I just kill myself and save myself from a life of struggle? No. Beliefs are validated by actions. Your actions will show what you truly believe.

Then it depends on what YHWH expects of us. If he's all-powerful, then he can see into our hearts, and can tell what we believe. As far as living goes, I don't think that has anything to do with the gods, but rather with others of our own spiritual level. In my beliefs, life is but a stage. If it is interrupted by suicide, the stage must be repeated. But that's just me.

So in the eyes of a Christian, is a Christian who sins all day, every day better than a Jew who is more "Christ-like?" And by "Christ-like" I just mean a righteous person who adheres to God's Law. So this person hasn't excepted Christ as their Lord and Saviour but has a "heart of gold." What glory does he receive for a life of righteousness?

If someone has a "heart of gold" then glory is the last thing he or she desires. I have no desire for glory, in fact, if glory were offered to me, then I would reject it.

 

[a_student]

Then it depends on what YHWH expects of us. If he's all-powerful, then he can see into our hearts, and can tell what we believe.

But what is in our hearts is manifested in what we do so the world can see it too.

If someone has a "heart of gold" then glory is the last thing he or she desires. I have no desire for glory, in fact, if glory were offered to me, then I would reject it.

Not glory from man, but from G-d. I mean what is his reward from G-d? Whether he is looking for it or not. That scenario was specifically directed to any Christians because they say without excepting Christ you are damned. My question is what if there is tis really good person who is not Christian and there is a really bad person who is Christian. Who gets the better reward with G-d?

 

[Riverwolf]

But what is in our hearts is manifested in what we do so the world can see it too.

But didn't Christ say not to make a big deal of good deeds? That whether or not the world knows whether or not good deeds are done doesn't matter, because YHWH knows it has been done?

Not glory from man, but from G-d. I mean what is his reward from G-d? Whether he is looking for it or not. That scenario was specifically directed to any Christians because they say without excepting Christ you are damned. My question is what if there is tis really good person who is not Christian and there is a really bad person who is Christian. Who gets the better reward with G-d?

Read the Good Samaritan and you'll have your answer.

And I don't want glory either from a man or a god.

 

[DallasApple]

The guilty religions know who they are.

The guilty aren't "religions"...the guilty are guilty period...Religion or not..

Love

Dallas

 

[a_student]

But didn't Christ say not to make a big deal of good deeds? That whether or not the world knows whether or not good deeds are done doesn't matter, because YHWH knows it has been done?

Well this is what I'm asking. How important are good deeds. I believe they are very important. And you're right, people in the world don't matter but by living in the world with you, they will obviously see your deeds. And certainly The Most High will. Furthermore if Christ is a person's example, then wouldn't following his example include good deeds. I can't see a person remorselessly sinning and calling himself following Jesus Christ's example.

And I don't want glory either from a man or a god.

Again, that question was for Christians to answer. I'm not 100% sure what a Tao-Christo-Neopagan believes, but I don't think that question was intended for you.

 

[Riverwolf]

Well this is what I'm asking. How important are good deeds. I believe they are very important. And you're right, people in the world don't matter but by living in the world with you, they will obviously see your deeds. And certainly The Most High will. Furthermore if Christ is a person's example, then wouldn't following his example include good deeds. I can't see a person remorselessly sinning and calling himself following Jesus Christ's example.

Then we're on the same page. Okay.

Again, that question was for Christians to answer. I'm not 100% sure what a Tao-Christo-Neopagan believes, but I don't think that question was intended for you.

Oh, sorry. I didn't get that. And just so you know, I made up my religion. "Tao" because of the Taoist beliefs I follow, "Christo" because I do try to follow the earthen examples set down by Jesus of Nazareth, and "Neopagan" because... I have a neopagan view of the divine. ^_^

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

Here's what the Baha'i scriptures have to say about freedom:

122 “Consider the pettiness of men’s minds. They ask for that which injureth them, and cast away the thing that profiteth them. They are, indeed, of those that are far astray. We find some men desiring liberty, and priding themselves therein. Such men are in the depths of ignorance.
123 “Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing. Know ye that the embodiment of liberty and its symbol is the animal. That which beseemeth man is submission unto such restraints as will protect him from his own ignorance, and guard him against the harm of the mischief-maker. Liberty causeth man to overstep the bounds of propriety, and to infringe on the dignity of his station. It debaseth him to the level of extreme depravity and wickedness.
124 “Regard men as a flock of sheep that need a shepherd for their protection. This, verily, is the truth, the certain truth. We approve of liberty in certain circumstances, and refuse to sanction it in others. We, verily, are the All-Knowing.
125 “Say: True liberty consisteth in man’s submission unto My commandments, little as ye know it. Were men to observe that which We have sent down unto them from the Heaven of Revelation, they would, of a certainty, attain unto perfect liberty. Happy is the man that hath apprehended the Purpose of God in whatever He hath revealed from the Heaven of His Will, that pervadeth all created things. Say: The liberty that profiteth you is to be found nowhere except in complete servitude unto God, the Eternal Truth. Whoso hath tasted of its sweetness will refuse to barter it for all the dominion of earth and heaven.”

--The Book of Laws, pp. 63-64.


Food for thought, I suggest . . .

Peace,

Bruce