Are you patriotic?

[The Hammer]

Yeah, this pretty much covers my view of the subject...

Ditto x3

 

[Kooky]

I view the state as one of the major vectors of oppression and unjust violence in our day and age.
I am probably the exact opposite of a patriot.

 

[Secret Chief]

While the history of slavery was taught, it was never ever adequately explained why we were the country of the free. Sure it was good for most Europeans but so many loose ends remained.

Native American history was also excised In terms of the viewpoint of those occupying the lands prior to Europe's arrival to the states. I only learned one perspective and it wasn't indigenous history.

The country always looked at odds with its values associated with freedom and liberty, but as a kid, I didnt know any better and never questioned the things I was taught.

I think history needs to be revisited and changes in regards to accuracy and verification of events and people.

Do you know if this is being addressed for the current school generation?

 

[Secret Chief]

I am probably the exact opposite of a patriot.

What term would you self-describe as then?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Do you know if this is being addressed for the current school generation?

I dunno. I hope so. People need the truth in full.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Pretty much. We had some bad experiences with people who were too patriotic.

We all know about the dangers of trance.

Long live Stenjo!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Is patriotism frowned upon in Germany?

Germans are still brainwashed to hate themselves, sadly.

 

[Secret Chief]

Germans are still brainwashed to hate themselves, sadly.

Are you not American though? Why do you think this?

Archive:Quality of life in Europe - facts and views - overall life satisfaction - Statistics Explained

 

[Heyo]

Germans are still brainwashed to hate themselves, sadly.

It is a problem that people can't differentiate between guilt and responsibility. There is little reason to hate oneself for being German today. We are no longer the ugly ones. On the other hand we still have the responsibility to not think of ourselves as superior again and to watch carefully those who already do.

 

[Secret Chief]

watch carefully those who already do.

...such as those exceptionalists across the Channel.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Are you not American though? Why do you think this?

You don't have to be German to see it. It's a product of their educational system and a certain rather bigoted way of thinking that says that there was something uniquely German about the holocaust, that it was inevitable due to German history. So one way of "preventing" it, in that view, was to never ever let the Germans forget what "they" did as a nation. It's a sort of collective guilt that was fostered. So they're taught about their awful ancestors who committed all these atrocities from a young age and into adulthood. Germans who are "too patriotic" (whatever that means) are viewed as dangerous and suspected of Nazi sympathies.

Also, the way we teach about the holocaust in the West, turning it into a sort of quasi-religion with the way we present it and acting like it was some unique world-altering cataclysm, doesn't help. There have been hundreds of genocides throughout history, with millions upon millions of victims, even dwarfing the 11 dead in the holocaust. Stalin killed at least 30 million, Mao killed between 50 and 100 million and Pol Pot wiped out about 25% of his population. Do you think Russians are constantly reminded about the holodomar? Nah. Even the Japanese don't seem too feel burdened by their actions during WWII, which are said to be just as heinous as Nazi atrocities. Of course, the Turks committed genocide against the Armenian and Greek Christians, and their government officially denies it ever happened and the US government also denies it to mention our relationship with Turkey. Now the Israelis are committing ethnic cleansing against Palestinians.

So there is an obvious double standard here, which exists for various reasons.

 

[Ashoka]

I view the state as one of the major vectors of oppression and unjust violence in our day and age.
I am probably the exact opposite of a patriot.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on patriotism. I'm from the U.S. I love the people, but the government...not so much.

 

[Shaul]

I think some here are conflating patriotism with nationalism. There are different things.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I think some here are conflating patriotism with nationalism. There are different things.

I was just thinking the same thing. There is some overlap, but there is a distinction to be made

 

[Secret Chief]

Patriotism - Wikipedia
Nationalism - Wikipedia

I think some here are conflating patriotism with nationalism. There are different things.

I've set the poll so that people can change their selection, if they so wish.

 

[Kooky]

You don't have to be German to see it. It's a product of their educational system and a certain rather bigoted way of thinking that says that there was something uniquely German about the holocaust, that it was inevitable due to German history. So one way of "preventing" it, in that view, was to never ever let the Germans forget what "they" did as a nation. It's a sort of collective guilt that was fostered. So they're taught about their awful ancestors who committed all these atrocities from a young age and into adulthood. Germans who are "too patriotic" (whatever that means) are viewed as dangerous and suspected of Nazi sympathies.

Do you think young Germans shouldn't be taught about the Holocaust or the Nazis?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Australian.
And yes, I would say I'm somewhat patriotic. No country or organisation is perfect, or even close to it. But I find there is much to be proud of in Australia.

However it's worth mentioning, I'm exceedingly wary of jingoism.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Well, on balance, are you? Why or why not?

(Please state your country)

I'm an American, and I consider myself very patriotic. It's a qualified patriotic. I'm not blind. We have had two and a half centuries of grievous mistakes and wrongs -- we are a country run by people, and people are flawed. But I think that even when I consider those things, the good still outweighs them. I look at our Declaration of Independence, and its high ideal of the equality of all individuals, and how far we have come in two and a half centuries to achieving that (not that we still don't have room for improvement, mind you) and I am very proud. I look at our Constitution and I think it is a work of genius, how it separates powers and creates a system of checks and balances. It has served us well. I think that with regard to human rights, we have been a case of one step back, two steps forward. We have learned that it is not expedient to go to war to obtain resources when we can simply buy or trade for them, which has made for a more peaceful world. Yes, I am very proud of being an American.

In the same way, as a Jew, I am proud of Israel, but with qualifications. I am firmly Zionist, by which I mean I do believe in a national homeland there for the Jews. But at the same time, I do see a lot of immoral treatment of the Palestinians that I want to see stopped, beginning with the building of the settlements, which interferes with the goal of a two-state solution. But quite honestly, Israel is the most democratic country in the middle east, a country with the greatest rights for women, for LGBT, etc. It has not had natural resources (until the very recent discover of gas) and has built itself up from nothing using only brain power. It is at the top of the world in medicine and tech. It took swampland and turned it into fertile soil for farming. And of course it is a haven for Jews all over the world who are victims of anti-Semitism. It gives me comfort and is a source of pride.