Are you proud to have The Bible as your holy book?

[Neil P]

So that is a refusal to answer, yes? No problem....

 

[Levite]

How many levels of meaning are there in a statement that says do as the lord says or you and your family will die by sword, disease, or famine. How many levels of meaning are there in descriptions for building a tabernacle. Those types of passages make up the majority of the book.

Many levels, in both cases, presuming that one understands that there are many ways to read such verses. The laws of building the tabernacle are an excellent case in point: the Rabbis of the Talmud use these laws as a set of precedents to precisely define the categories of types of work forbidden on the Sabbath. If one read only the commandment that the Sabbath was a day of rest and one was not to do any work on it, one could come away with the erroneous conclusion that the only difference between what one did on Sabbath versus what one did the other six days was that on the Sabbath one ought not to go to one's job. In fact, there are thirty-nine primary categories of activities (with innumerable subcategories) which are prohibited on the Sabbath, and these are based in the methodologies of the construction of the Tabernacle.

The Kabbalists, also, will tell you that the arrangement of the ritual items in the Tabernacle, and the design of its construction, is an elegant metaphor for the way in which the divine energy flows from Ein Sof (God's ultimate, transcendant "core") through the Sefirot (the emanations of God's aspects within and without the created universe).

And those are just a few levels to one set of laws in particular....

 

[George-ananda]

Do you think it's a good book? Does it represent your faith accurately?

Finally forced myself to read it cover to cover, all 1,750 pgs of my KJV ebook, and it would be an understatement to say I'm not impressed. Probably 90% of it is either repetitive (practically word for word) or trivial (geneologies, measurements...)

I wonder how many times the Old Testament states that following the law will lead to you spreading your seed gloriously, and disobeying the law will lead to death by "the sword, pestilence, or famine," or in the New Testament that faith leads to eternal life and lack of faith leads to destruction. If you removed all repitition of those statements you'd probably cut the length of the bible in half.

There are some interesting stories and some pearls of wisdom, but most of the book is petty, is it not?

The bible was written by people thousands of years ago in a different world than we know. Basically as you point out it did not age well and is kind of embarrasing at points.

What really does sadden me though, being a theist, is so many people use the problems with the bible as an arguement against belief in God. Poor God, he has to take the heat for what some writers say he said and did. So many of these people now have just married themselves to their cynicism and aren't interested in looking at non-Abrahamic faiths and more liberal western theists of the Abrahmic traditions.

 

[Man of Faith]

I am very proud of my Bible, I kiss it, I sleep with it and I cry on it. It is my life. It tells me who God is, the history of mankind and it gives me Jesus who died for me so that I can be forgiven of my sins. Now days it is especially important for me to cling to the Bible as satan is ramping up his attacks on Christianity and laying the groundwork in anticipation for the anti-christ and Armageddon.

Enjoy the video
[youtube]OHk9u7z008w[/youtube]
Ricky Van Shelton - Family Bible - YouTube

 

[beerisit]

And worst of all you worship it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Do you think it's a good book?

I find it exceptional.

Does it represent your faith accurately?

Not in the way you intend.

Finally forced myself to read it cover to cover, all 1,750 pgs of my KJV ebook, and it would be an understatement to say I'm not impressed.

Concerning which I am neither impressed nor surprised.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Many levels, in both cases, presuming that one understands that there are many ways to read such verses. The laws of building the tabernacle are an excellent case in point: the Rabbis of the Talmud use these laws as a set of precedents to precisely define the categories of types of work forbidden on the Sabbath. If one read only the commandment that the Sabbath was a day of rest and one was not to do any work on it, one could come away with the erroneous conclusion that the only difference between what one did on Sabbath versus what one did the other six days was that on the Sabbath one ought not to go to one's job. In fact, there are thirty-nine primary categories of activities (with innumerable subcategories) which are prohibited on the Sabbath, and these are based in the methodologies of the construction of the Tabernacle.

The Kabbalists, also, will tell you that the arrangement of the ritual items in the Tabernacle, and the design of its construction, is an elegant metaphor for the way in which the divine energy flows from Ein Sof (God's ultimate, transcendant "core") through the Sefirot (the emanations of God's aspects within and without the created universe).

And those are just a few levels to one set of laws in particular....

So the excruciating details of the tabernacle construction and arrangement -- the length in cubits, the type, weight, and price of the materials -- are metaphors for the flow of divine energy? You don't think that's a bit of a stretch? Reminds me of how audiences and readers of today interpret meanings for books and movies that the writers never intended.

 

[CarlinKnew]

So that is a refusal to answer, yes? No problem....

This thread's about the Bible. If you want to discuss other religious texts start a thread.

 

[CarlinKnew]

The bible was written by people thousands of years ago in a different world than we know. Basically as you point out it did not age well and is kind of embarrasing at points.

What really does sadden me though, being a theist, is so many people use the problems with the bible as an arguement against belief in God. Poor God, he has to take the heat for what some writers say he said and did. So many of these people now have just married themselves to their cynicism and aren't interested in looking at non-Abrahamic faiths and more liberal western theists of the Abrahmic traditions.

Well no believers in this thread seem to be embarrassed by it; quite the contrary.

 

[CarlinKnew]

I am very proud of my Bible, I kiss it, I sleep with it and I cry on it. It is my life. It tells me who God is, the history of mankind and it gives me Jesus who died for me so that I can be forgiven of my sins. Now days it is especially important for me to cling to the Bible as satan is ramping up his attacks on Christianity and laying the groundwork in anticipation for the anti-christ and Armageddon.

I find it exceptional.

Interesting.

Not in the way you intend.

What way is that?

 

[CarlinKnew]

It is very complicated. Just looking at the plethora of work on the subject, as well as the various notes to the actual Hebrew, it simply shows how complicated it is. Especially considering that in many instance, the exact meaning of the Hebrew isn't known anyway.

Then to understand the work fully, one needs to have a certain degree of background information. Looking at just the creation stories, it is very helpful to know something about Mesopotamian creation myths as well. Such as the Enuma Elish. Not to mention that there are two creation myths in the Bible that say different things, and were written for specific reasons. Even the story of Babel (notice, that in the story, the Tower really isn't mentioned, even though the story has been traditionally called the Tower of Babel) is somewhat complicated. Especially if you try to read it in the context of the previous two chapters.

Going to the NT, just on Paul, there is a plethora of work. Simply because it is not very simple. They are difficult works, especially since they are translated, and much is left out in translation.

The fact that lots of people have studied and written about it doesn't necessarily mean it's conplicated. I could "complicate" any book by creating meaning where none was intended.

 

[fallingblood]

The fact that lots of people have studied and written about it doesn't necessarily mean it's conplicated. I could "complicate" any book by creating meaning where none was intended.

But you can't know the intended meaning without the credible background information.

 

[dust1n]

The Kabbalists, also, will tell you that the arrangement of the ritual items in the Tabernacle, and the design of its construction, is an elegant metaphor for the way in which the divine energy flows from Ein Sof (God's ultimate, transcendant "core") through the Sefirot (the emanations of God's aspects within and without the created universe).

And those are just a few levels to one set of laws in particular....

Wait... can you go a bit more into detail, because I'm not sure if scholars inferring metaphors or 'levels' actually mean those level's are there... Is there a typical example of these types of superbly hidden meanings we could look over? We can talk about the Tabernacle or another verse.

 

[Reptillian]

Do you think it's a good book? Does it represent your faith accurately?

Finally forced myself to read it cover to cover, all 1,750 pgs of my KJV ebook, and it would be an understatement to say I'm not impressed. Probably 90% of it is either repetitive (practically word for word) or trivial (geneologies, measurements...)

I wonder how many times the Old Testament states that following the law will lead to you spreading your seed gloriously, and disobeying the law will lead to death by "the sword, pestilence, or famine," or in the New Testament that faith leads to eternal life and lack of faith leads to destruction. If you removed all repitition of those statements you'd probably cut the length of the bible in half.

There are some interesting stories and some pearls of wisdom, but most of the book is petty, is it not?

I'm curious, over what time span did you read it? Was it a cursorial reading over a short time period, or a long term/in depth study?

The Bible as a holy book as fine as long as you're not interpreting it.

But doesn't the Holy Spirit give righteous individuals the power to interpret The Bible? (Or are you saying CarlinKnew is not gifted with the Holy Spirit? How would you know?)

That said I think The Bible, like most ancient religious texts, is a rich and complex work that attempts to define and encompass the human experience. I'm impressed with it and read it for much the same reason I read Shakespeare. Like Shakespeare's works, The Bible contains its share of questionable moral statements and stories, but I think it's possible to learn valuable lessons from those stories and characters.

 

[dust1n]

What really does sadden me though, being a theist, is so many people use the problems with the bible as an arguement against belief in God. Poor God, he has to take the heat for what some writers say he said and did. So many of these people now have just married themselves to their cynicism and aren't interested in looking at non-Abrahamic faiths and more liberal western theists of the Abrahmic traditions.

Poor God? Should have made a world where people couldn't inaccurately describe his being. Yeah, all of those scathing clueless people attacking god for not revealing himself, allowing hundreds to pretend to do so. Then they have the audacity to whine about the giant barrier god between human understanding/logic/physical existence and the true nature of the world (where I guess he resides). If you aren't making stuff up about god then you will just fail to understand him forever. Poor God. That's my sarcasm. I hope my point is easily discernable!

 

[dust1n]

But you can't know the intended meaning without the credible background information.

The credible background information wouldn't provide insight to the intentions of the writers (at least, confirmably), so you should have just said, "You can't know the intended meaning."

 

[dust1n]

The Bible as a holy book as fine as long as you're not interpreting it.

Reminds me what my ex-pastor use to say, "If you are doubting your faith or are looking for an answer to your prayer, don't consult your Bible because your inability to interpret it appropriately will you lead you astray. Instead, rely on my interpretation, which is also based off another interpretation, and another, ad (near-)infinitum for sixteen hundred years."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Do you think it's a good book?

I find it exceptional.

Interesting.

That too.

 

[Caladan]

Do you think it's a good book? Does it represent your faith accurately?

Finally forced myself to read it cover to cover, all 1,750 pgs of my KJV ebook, and it would be an understatement to say I'm not impressed. Probably 90% of it is either repetitive (practically word for word) or trivial (geneologies, measurements...)

I wonder how many times the Old Testament states that following the law will lead to you spreading your seed gloriously, and disobeying the law will lead to death by "the sword, pestilence, or famine," or in the New Testament that faith leads to eternal life and lack of faith leads to destruction. If you removed all repitition of those statements you'd probably cut the length of the bible in half.

There are some interesting stories and some pearls of wisdom, but most of the book is petty, is it not?

When reading your conclusion I have two doubts. One that you actually read all of the Bible, and the other that you read the Bible at all. The only other conclusion I have is that you came with such a negative mindset when reading the text that your mind was set from the beginning, whether you read one of the Biblical books, one chapter, or one verse.
There is much that I admire about the Bible: The prophetic writings, the prose, the poetry, the ideology. Even though I'm technically an atheist for lacking a belief in the supernatural, there is much that I personally draw from the Bible and I will go as far as calling it a sacred text.
Furthermore, reading the Bible without proper textual interpretation or guidance is like not reading the Bible at all.

 

[sojourner]

most of the book is petty, is it not?

Most of humanity is petty, is it not?