Arguing Against Atheism is Silly

[ArtieE]

You also make an active choice to reject the arguments for the existence of gods, once you are capable of understanding and considering them. You have made an active choice, too. Saying "I don't believe either way" is an active choice. It certainly isn't passive. And it certainly is a different state than someone who is incapable of understanding or considering the concepts.

Doesn't matter. No active choice is needed to not be a theist.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Unless you can bring evidence of his non-existence...

 

[Falvlun]

I have lost track.

Post 155. Regardless, before your little outburst in post 191 you never said that you weren't talking about a default position, and in fact seem to use the two concepts (default position and without a position) interchangeably.

I was once a fetus.

So? It's still absurd to compare yourself to one.

Not a theist.Yes they don't walk, they don't talk, they don't eat food with their mouths, and they don't believe in gods. That's the default state for a fetus and that's where we start off.

What's step 3? How do you get from "a fetus is not a theist" to "not a theist is the default state"?

Are you really doubling down on the idea that not eating food with our mouths is a default state for humans?

How many times do I have to tell you that it isn't the "default position" it's the ABSENCE OF A POSITION?

This is only the second time you have said this, but to be fair, you aren't being very consistent.

"Of course I do. The default state is not having taken the position that gods exist and not having taken the position that gods don't exist." Post 195.

"Not a theist is the default." Post 191

"I'm arguing that not being a theist is the default state." Post 184.

A strong atheist is "not a theist" PLUS BELIEVES GODS DON'T EXIST. He's not just "not a theist" anymore. He's taken a position.

So? He's still "not a theist". If not being a theist is the default (which it is, according to you), then a strong atheist is the default (per logic).

1. If not a theist, then default.
2. A strong atheist is not a theist.
3. Therefore, a strong atheist is default.

This is basic, basic syllogism.

 

[Falvlun]

Doesn't matter. No active choice is needed to not be a theist.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that all non theists haven't made an active choice.

No active choice is needed to not have hair. But that doesn't mean that some people don't actively shave their heads.

 

[Falvlun]

@ArtieE
It dawns on me that you are freaking out over the difference between "default state" and "default position".

I've been using them interchangeably throughout. "State" and "position" are synonymous.

Edit:
Furthermore, none of my arguments have been based on the word "position" in the phrase "default position". I've been focused on the "default" part.

 

[1AOA1]

Is something seriously wrong with you? How many times do I have to explain that I'm not talking about any default position but the absence of a position, lack of a position, having no position?

Where there is being there is position. In the absence of the material layer is the super-natural.

 

[ArtieE]

@ArtieE
It dawns on me that you are freaking out over the difference between "default state" and "default position".

I've been using them interchangeably throughout. "State" and "position" are synonymous.

There's no "default position". There are two positions, that gods exist or that gods don't exist and none of them is the default. The default is when you haven't taken a position. That is your default state.

Default:
the thing that exists or happens if you do not change it intentionally by performing an action:
default Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

You are not a theist and you are not a strong atheist to begin with. It's your default state. But later you can become either.

 

[ArtieE]

1. If not a theist, then default.
2. A strong atheist is not a theist.
3. Therefore, a strong atheist is default.

This is basic, basic syllogism.

Do I really have to spell everything out for you?
Not a theist and not a strong atheist is the default state. If you become a theist or a strong atheist you have left the default state and taken a position.

 

[Falvlun]

There's no "default position". There are two positions, that gods exist or that gods don't exist and none of them is the default. The default is when you haven't taken a position. That is your default state.

Default:
the thing that exists or happens if you do not change it intentionally by performing an action:
default Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

You are not a theist and you are not a strong atheist to begin with. It's your default state. But later you can become either.

Any time I said "default position" you can change that to "default state". I meant them to mean the same thing: the default. I think you are making a distinction without a difference, so I don't care if we change it all to "default state".

You still have not shown that "not being a theist" is the default state.

 

[Falvlun]

Do I really have to spell everything out for you?
Not a theist and not a strong atheist is the default state. If you become a theist or a strong atheist you have left the default state and taken a position.

ArtieE, is a strong atheist "not a theist"?

 

[ArtieE]

ArtieE, is a strong atheist "not a theist"?

Of course. But he has left the default state and taken a position. Again: "Not a theist and not a strong atheist is the default state. If you become a theist or a strong atheist you have left the default state and taken a position."

 

[ArtieE]

Any time I said "default position" you can change that to "default state". I meant them to mean the same thing: the default. I think you are making a distinction without a difference, so I don't care if we change it all to "default state".

You still have not shown that "not being a theist" is the default state.

"Not being a theist and not being a strong atheist" is the state we all are in until we grow up, can understand what a god is and can become theists or strong atheists.

 

[Falvlun]

Of course. But he has left the default state and taken a position. Again: "Not a theist and not a strong atheist is the default state. If you become a theist or a strong atheist you have left the default state and taken a position."

Then "not a theist" cannot be the default state if members of the group "not a theist" are no longer in the default state.

Are you trying to sneakily change what you're calling the default state to "not a theist and not a strong atheist"? So every time someone points out an an exception to the "not a theists", you're just going to add it on? Bahahaha. Go ahead, type that out every time you describe your default state and hopefully the ridiculousness of such an approach will sink in.

Meanwhile, if anyone else is following this, I would like to point out that ArchiE has been describing his default state as just "not a theist" and is just now attempting to tack on an exclusion after being shown that "not a theist" fails.

 

[Falvlun]

"Not being a theist and not being a strong atheist" is the state we all are in until we grow up, can understand what a god is and can become theists or strong atheists.

We have already established that some "not theists" have indeed taken a position (strong atheist), so why should I accept that all the other "not theists" haven't also taken a position?

You also have not proved that we start out as non-theists. That's an assumption.

You have also still not explained why the state of a baby should be considered our default state. You are arbitrarily saying "this is the default state". Why should I accept that? As I pointed out earlier, babies cannot walk, but "not walking" is not the default state of humans. Walking is very much the default for humans. "Not walking" is merely the default for babies.

 

[ArtieE]

Then "not a theist" cannot be the default state if members of the group "not a theist" are no longer in the default state.

Are you trying to sneakily change what you're calling the default state to "not a theist and not a strong atheist"? So every time someone points out an an exception to the "not a theists", you're just going to add it on? Bahahaha. Go ahead, type that out every time you describe your default state and hopefully the ridiculousness of such an approach will sink in.

Meanwhile, if anyone else is following this, I would like to point out that ArchiE has been describing his default state as just "not a theist" and is just now attempting to tack on an exclusion after being shown that "not a theist" fails.

I can type out "not a theist and not a strong atheist" every time for your benefit. I just used "not a theist" as shorthand because anybody with half a brain would understand by themselves that the default is not being a strong atheist too.

 

[ArtieE]

We have already established that some "not theists" have indeed taken a position (strong atheist), so why should I accept that all the other "not theists" haven't also taken a position?

You also have not proved that we start out as non-theists. That's an assumption.

You have also still not explained why the state of a baby should be considered our default state. You are arbitrarily saying "this is the default state". Why should I accept that? As I pointed out earlier, babies cannot walk, but "not walking" is not the default state of humans. Walking is very much the default for humans. "Not walking" is merely the default for babies.

Whatever. I'll just leave it up to the readers of this thread to come to their own conclusions.

 

[Falvlun]

I can type out "not a theist and not a strong atheist" every time for your benefit. I just used "not a theist" as shorthand because anybody with half a brain would understand by themselves that the default is not being a strong atheist too.

And anyone with half a brain would realize that a strong atheist is "not a theist" and therefore "not a theist" can't be the default.

But that's why I'm here. To help ya out with the hard stuff.

 

[Falvlun]

Whatever. I'll just leave it up to the readers of this thread to come to their own conclusions.

So, in other words, we are allowed to just call whatever we want the default as it suits our needs. Just calling it the default makes it so.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If literal is a reference to their source then yes.

So when we unpack all that, by "God", you mean a literal god?

It seems that was a lot of effort for an underwhelming result.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why would it be illogical to believe only one of something exists?

Not to put too many words in @ArtieE 's mouth, but I think he was getting at the case where many candidates clear the same low bar in terms of support (and all don't clear the next higher bar), but a person accepts only one and rejects the rest.