Arming teachers is a great idea

[Revoltingest]

In the news....

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/29/us/scot-peterson-parkland-shooting-trial-thursday/index.html

Excerpted...
A jury has acquitted on all counts the former school resource officer who stayed outside during the February 2018 massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida – absolving him of wrongdoing in the rare trial of a law enforcement officer for his response to a mass shooting.


I'm not surprised by this.
Per SCOTUS, cops have no duty to defend anyone,
except someone in their custody. So when this cop
ran & hid from the shooter, he did nothing wrong
regarding his job requirements. Being morally
wrong is often irrelevant in court.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In the news....

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/29/us/scot-peterson-parkland-shooting-trial-thursday/index.html

Excerpted...
A jury has acquitted on all counts the former school resource officer who stayed outside during the February 2018 massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida – absolving him of wrongdoing in the rare trial of a law enforcement officer for his response to a mass shooting.


I'm not surprised by this.
Per SCOTUS, cops have no duty to defend anyone,
except someone in their custody. So when this cop
ran & hid from the shooter, he did nothing wrong
regarding his job requirements. Being morally
wrong is often irrelevant in court.

You cannot order someone to be a hero. Too bad that it took the lives of others to find that he was not qualified for his job. I have not checked, but he still may be sued for incompetence. The standards are not so high for a civil court. He could end up broke and bankrupt for his actions, but I did not think that it merited prison myself.

 

[Willamena]

I think arming teachers logically will increase defense and security.

What do you think?

Giving arms to people who have no skill at using them or will to use them isn't helpful.

 

[Revoltingest]

You cannot order someone to be a hero. Too bad that it took the lives of others to find that he was not qualified for his job. I have not checked, but he still may be sued for incompetence. The standards are not so high for a civil court. He could end up broke and bankrupt for his actions, but I did not think that it merited prison myself.

What did he do that was legally wrong
or counter to his job description?

My question does raise the issue that
cops have a dysfunctional legal relationship
with the public....
- Cops can lie to us, but we can't lie to them.
- Cops can use ignorance of the law as a defense,
but we can't.
- Cops have qualified immunity from civil suits,
but we do not.
- Cops have no legal duty to protect anyone
(unless in their custody).
- SCOTUS has ruled that intelligent applicants
to become cops can be legally denied employment,
unlike private employers.

We should expect a much higer level of
competence, training, service, & accountability.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What did he do that was legally wrong
or counter to his job description?

My question does raise the issue that
cops have a dysfunctional legal relationship
with the public....
- Cops can lie to us, but we can't lie to them.
- Cops can use ignorance of the law as a defense,
but we can't.
- Cops have qualified immunity from civil suits,
but we do not.
- Cops have no legal duty to protect anyone
(unless in their custody).
- SCOTUS has ruled that intelligent applicants
to become cops can be legally denied employment,
unlike private employers.

We should expect a much higer level of
competence, training, service, & accountability.

Cops in the UK are held to much Higher standards. They also get tougher sentences than civilians if the break the laws they are supposed to uphold. They have no qualified immunity. They can also be charged with dereliction of duty if they stand back and do nothing when a crime is being committed. ( they often tackle armed perpetrators when unarmed them selves). anything the public can be charged with, so can the police.

However many police are still racist and sexist. but such individuals are slowly being found, charged and dismissed, as instances come to light.

Trespass in the UK is a civil matter and unless there is a court order the police are not involved. They rarely if ever get involved with Neighbour/ private property disputes. Though they do get involved in domestic violence and child abuse issues.

The biggest problem with UK police these days is that there are far too few of them, in the normal way you never even see one.
Even large events have to steward themselves. Though there may be a few police in attendance.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

He just got unlucky. Had nothing to do with his skill.

A random guess is that the amount of those particular sorts of “unlucky”, increase with the amount of snipers and guns that are around. Possibly.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

You cannot order someone to be a hero. Too bad that it took the lives of others to find that he was not qualified for his job. I have not checked, but he still may be sued for incompetence. The standards are not so high for a civil court. He could end up broke and bankrupt for his actions, but I did not think that it merited prison myself.

You would have thought that any one appointed to a "Protection" role would receive training and undergo active rehearsals of how to deal with the various possible scenarios. That should be the minimum expectation. it is certainly not sufficient to take just anyone and give him a gun.
even if he is trained to use one. Protecting a school requires far more than that. In this case it appears to have been a very poor appointment, with out any clear ideas of his expected duties. which should have been laid out in the contract, including the possible. need to put himself at risk. in protecting the students and staff. Otherwise they might just as well hsve bought a passive surveillance camera.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Giving arms to people who have no skill at using them or will to use them isn't helpful.

Yea. They could shoot their eye out.

 

[Audie]

Giving arms to people who have no skill at using them or will to use them isn't helpful.

Obviously.
But nobody advocates that.

 

[Revoltingest]

Obviously.
But nobody advocates that.

Giving arms, pay, & responsibility to people who have
no duty to protect others, & run at the first sign of trouble
isn't working out either.
Unlike cops, teachers & other school staff would have
a strong motive to survive & defend the school. It's
most odd that gun control fans either ignore or object
to the idea of their being trained & armed. How could
they possibly be worse than the violent & cowardly cops
we see?

 

[Shaul]

I was a teacher and served in the U.S. Marine Corps. Had I been permitted to do so I could have quite effectively protected the schools where I worked with firearms. But the law did not and does not allow for that. That is wrong.

 

[The Hammer]

Giving arms, pay, & responsibility to people who have
no duty to protect others, & run at the first sign of trouble
isn't working out either.
Unlike cops, teachers & other school staff would have
a strong motive to survive & defend the school. It's
most odd that gun control fans either ignore or object
to the idea of their being trained & armed. How could
they possibly be worse than the violent & cowardly cops
we see?

Yeah, let's talk ain and arm them for a job they didn't sign up for. That's ****ing brilliant.

Teachers didn't sign up to teach, because they wanted to shoot people?

You want to take an already underpayed, undersupplied, overworked group of people and then also make them defend the school.... They can't get pencils or textbooks. But let's give em something infinitely more expensive.

 

[sun rise]

Why stop with arming the teachers? Why not arm the students too? Heck, I'm all for arming everyone in the school, and then militarizing it like we've done with our police departments. Shouldn't the football team have it's own main battle tank? I can't see why not. "Camouflage and Kevlar for the kids!" That's my view!

Let's issue an AK-47 to everyone and mandate public carry. Then we could have some 'fun' like this rocking party https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/02/us/baltimore-shooting-sunday/index.html

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, let's talk ain and arm them for a job they didn't sign up for. That's ****ing brilliant.

You really haven't been paying attention.
I've seen no one here argue assigning the job to the unwilling.
Instead, it's about only the staff who volunteer for the selection,
training, & responsibility.
It's far better to have motivated & trained people already on
site, than have random cops show up later, only to discover
that many are concerned with their own safety more then
the school's occupants.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You would have thought that any one appointed to a "Protection" role would receive training and undergo active rehearsals of how to deal with the various possible scenarios. That should be the minimum expectation. it is certainly not sufficient to take just anyone and give him a gun.
even if he is trained to use one. Protecting a school requires far more than that. In this case it appears to have been a very poor appointment, with out any clear ideas of his expected duties. which should have been laid out in the contract, including the possible. need to put himself at risk. in protecting the students and staff. Otherwise they might just as well hsve bought a passive surveillance camera.

Unfortunately cities often severely undertrain their officers. They try to get by on the cheap and it is the average citizen that ends up paying the bill for police incompetence.