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As much as I love Texas - Europe sure is a great place to visit!

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Here are a few (OK, a lot) of the pictures from our recent vacation to Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Germany, and Austria.

We had a fantastic time - and for once, things actually got a little cheaper each day on our trip, "thanks" to the economic upheaval in Greece which went down within the first few days of our jaunt.

It was the first time I've been back to Europe since the EU has been in full swing, and that aspect was interesting on a lot of fronts. Honestly, I don't see how the Euro is going to work in the long run, but maybe it will. I was very relieved to see that each individual country has maintained it's own individuality - I would hate to see a vague sort of European blandness begin to permeate the EU, and I didn't see any evidence of that.

One very interesting thing - I lived in Germany twenty years ago, when the country was chock full of US military bases, and GIs. Our base was closed down while we were there - in fact, the joke was "Which of us is in charge of turning off the lights?" Our housing was turned over to the state of Bavaria shortly after we left, and it was used to house immigrants, mostly from Turkey and from Eastern Europe (the Berlin wall had been toppled during our stay). So - the last time I went back, fifteen years ago, my former home was a bit slummy - which was frankly depressing.

Now - it's slated for demolition. Yep, those big, spacious apartments which once housed German military officers in WW2, and then later housed US military officers for fifty years, and then the wave of immigrants created by the collapse of communism, are being torn down and replaced with big, shiny new businesses. "My" windows were boarded up, and the grass in the playground was high. The American school, where my little kids attended classes every day, was closed and shuttered.

I thought it would make me sad - but instead, it felt good. It felt like, "Mission accomplished - now, move on." It was great to see Germany doing so well.

When I lived there, the American presence was very widespread - English was spoken nearly everywhere, tours were in English at least as often as other languages, and it was easy to pick out the Americans in a crowd. Now - that's all changed. I noticed that English was much diminished, tours in English were very limited, as was literature about sites in English, and I didn't notice a lot of Americans in the crowds.

And that's all good too. Time marches on and nothing remains the same. My visit back to a country that I love was filled with memories of four small children - who I half expected to hear call my name at any time. But they never did. You CAN go back again - you CAN relive some experiences, like the burst of flavor when you bite down into a bratwurst covered with mittlsenfersharpf! But some experiences are always, poignantly, just out of reach...

Germans are still the same - they still "cut in line" and don't really understand the American concept of "personal space." They still drive like bats out of hell. But they also still keep their streets and villages incredibly clean, they still put on the best breakfast spread in the world, and they still have the consistently best beds and bedding in every hotel!

It was a great trip. Thank you to my husband, who humored me at every turn - and thank you, Belgians, Austrians, and French, for sharing your beautiful countries with us!

I removed the photos and reposted them later in the thread - apparently the program I was using doesn't work with this one.
 
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Flankerl

Well-Known Member
and don't really understand the American concept of "personal space."

A german would say "and the anglos dont really understand the german concept of personal space" ;)


Well good that you had a nice trip but none of your pictures can be seen. ;)
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Germans are still the same - they still "cut in line" and don't really understand the American concept of "personal space." They still drive like bats out of hell. But they also still keep their streets and villages incredibly clean, they still put on the best breakfast spread in the world, and they still have the consistently best beds and bedding in every hotel!
I love that part!

And I am dying to see the photos! you need to relink them!
 

Marble

Rolling Marble
why cant i see any pictures :/
I cannot eighter... :(

@Kathryn
What do you mean with Personal space? :confused:

Can't you just upload the pictures on your homepage?
By the way: You are from Texas & I would like to see a pic of little precious with a Cowboy hat. :D
 
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Flankerl

Well-Known Member
@Kathryn
What do you mean with Personal space? :confused:

If i may try to answer.
To be honest i have no idea how people from texas great each other. But as far as i know this is how its done quite often in the Anglosphere.
"Hi how are you doing?"
This question is the essence of anglo-smalltalk. Its just a conversation starter and no one really cares how the other person is doing.
Well the german language is a rather direct language and that can be seen how people from germany may see this smalltalk. If you are lucky perhaps you got a german who likes smalltalk. But that could also be your doom.

Hi - greeting
how are you doing? - this person wants to know how iam doing, why?
This innocent question perhaps pierced right through the personal bubble of a german. And the asked person thinks "i dont know this person, why would he want to know how iam feeling? is there a hidden reason behind it?" or "oh my he wants to know what i think, where should i start?".
There is no smalltalk in german. There isnt even a word for it.
I think it was some british automobile producer that got swallowed by BMW or so and the CEOs of BMW asked the british how the company is doing. And the british said that there were some problems but nothing serious. Which obviously meant "DEAR GOD ABANDON SHIP WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE".
But the german CEOs thought "oh my thats nice, nothing serious." ;)

And dont even get me started on friendship in germany. ;)
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
What do you mean with Personal space? :confused:

I can't speak for Kathryn, but for me personal space is the distance between you and someone else before you get too physically close than is comfortable. It's generally considered polite to stay an arm's length away from strangers if possible.
 
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Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Father Heathen, you are correct. I literally had Germans push me (I mean intentionally push me) in a crowded line, and also put their hands on my shoulders and move me so they could see an exhibit - something most Americans would not dream of doing.

In the exhibit situation, I was about three rows back in a crowded tour and it was very difficult for me to see, so I had positioned myself where I had a sliver of a view between two heads in front of me. I cannot imagine having the gall to actually reach forward and put my hands on the people in front of me and physically move them! But some woman (that I truly didn't even know was behind me) did just that.

I was pushed from behind very roughly when, in the same crowded tour group, I stepped back from an exhibit (to give another person room to see) and accidently barely touched the foot of a person behind me (who was, by the way, already jostling me and others trying to get to the front). Just as I turned to say, "Enshuldigung sie, bitte!" the young man (who was about 6'5" and towered over me) actually shoved me and said something - not sure what - in an angry tone of voice.

I would think these were isolated incidents if I hadn't lived in Germany previously for three years and experienced these same sorts of things on a fairly regular basis. I have literally watched Germans push my children TO THE GROUND trying to get to the front of the line at 5 pm when all the bakery goods are marked down.

Not quite sure what it is in their general psyche that makes them so aggressive when it comes to lines and driving - but it's definitely a common trait.

Oh well - they make up for it with their cleanliness - and their breakfasts! And their bedding - which is like sleeping on a cloud, even if it is on weird little twin beds pushed together.

And now I will repost the pictures which are apparently not showing up for everyone - or maybe even anyone. I was trying a different program and apparently it doesn't work!
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Father Heathen, you are correct. I literally had Germans push me (I mean intentionally push me) in a crowded line, and also put their hands on my shoulders and move me so they could see an exhibit - something most Americans would not dream of doing.

In the exhibit situation, I was about three rows back in a crowded tour and it was very difficult for me to see, so I had positioned myself where I had a sliver of a view between two heads in front of me. I cannot imagine having the gall to actually reach forward and put my hands on the people in front of me and physically move them! But some woman (that I truly didn't even know was behind me) did just that.

I was pushed from behind very roughly when, in the same crowded tour group, I stepped back from an exhibit (to give another person room to see) and accidently barely touched the foot of a person behind me (who was, by the way, already jostling me and others trying to get to the front). Just as I turned to say, "Enshuldigung sie, bitte!" the young man (who was about 6'5" and towered over me) actually shoved me and said something - not sure what - in an angry tone of voice.

I would think these were isolated incidents if I hadn't lived in Germany previously for three years and experienced these same sorts of things on a fairly regular basis. I have literally watched Germans push my children TO THE GROUND trying to get to the front of the line at 5 pm when all the bakery goods are marked down.

Not quite sure what it is in their general psyche that makes them so aggressive when it comes to lines and driving - but it's definitely a common trait.
!

Disgusting and shameful. I hope the rest of Europe was far more civilized. I would love to see German tourists try that behavior in the U.S. They would be humbled rather quickly.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
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Ghent, Belgium

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Castle in Ghent

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Cathedral in Ghent

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View of our hotel from across the canal in Ghent

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Shopping district in Ghent - and I didn't even mean to take this picture, but it turned out to be one of my favorites.

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Quiet street in Ghent

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Beautiful Flemish architecture
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
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Luxembourg - it's own little world

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Beautiful building in Nuremburg

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Nuremburg in the evening

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Me after a fantastic Italian meal in Nuremburg

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Quiet evening in Nuremburg

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Cool artwork in a Nuremburg church

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Same church - wow! Love the gothic arches!
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
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Berchtesgaden on a rainy morning

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Small church in Berchtesgaden

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Evening streets in a small German town

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Neuschwanstein castle - amazing place!

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Hallway in Neuschwanstein

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Castle from the Marian Bridge

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Church at the foot of the castle

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View from Hitler's Eagles Nest Nazi headquarters
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
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Sign commemorating the building of Hitler's Eagles Nest HQ/retreat in 1934

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Hitler's study

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View from the window in Hitler's study

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Walking down from the summit at the Eagle's Nest toward the complex

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The date the tunnel to the elevator (to the Eagle's Nest) was completed

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Lovely lobby of the fantastic hotel we stayed in at Garmisch


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View from the balcony at the hotel - Zugspitze in the distance - Germany's tallest peak
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
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Doorway in Freiberg

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People enjoying the local wine fest in Freiburg

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More wine fest participants

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Detail of castle doorway in Aschaffenburg

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Aschaffenburg castle at night

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Details on castle door

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Peak down a street in Aschaffenburg

More pics to come as I upload them!
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Disgusting and shameful. I hope the rest of Europe was far more civilized. I would love to see German tourists try that behavior in the U.S. They would be humbled rather quickly.

True dat. Good way to get your *** whupped in these parts!

Don't get me wrong - I generally like the German people. I've learned to just accept this one peculiar trait. They drive in the same manner - very aggressively. We were on the autobahn for much of our trip, and often hit speeds of 180 KPH (about 135 MPH). Even at these high speeds, we were often tailgated and then passed (with a roar) by cars going MUCH faster than we were.

It's a bit unsettling!

I have some German friends though, and when it comes to loyalty and kindness - once they give you their friendship, they are "true blue."
 

Marble

Rolling Marble
They drive in the same manner - very aggressively. We were on the autobahn for much of our trip, and often hit speeds of 180 KPH (about 135 MPH). Even at these high speeds, we were often tailgated and then passed (with a roar) by cars going MUCH faster than we were.
Have you ever been in Italy? :D
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Have you ever been in Italy? :D

No, but my husband has, and he says they drive like lunatics there.

At least you don't see many wrecks in Germany - so they're all consistently driving like bats out of hell apparently.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
A german would say "and the anglos dont really understand the german concept of personal space" ;)


I'm sure they would. As in "Americans seem to want us to keep our hands to ourselves and quit pushing and shoving on them - crazy Yanks!" :rolleyes:
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Disgusting and shameful. I hope the rest of Europe was far more civilized. I would love to see German tourists try that behavior in the U.S. They would be humbled rather quickly.

You know this kind of thinking is what people dont like about americans.
"our ways are the best ever!"
Germany is not the USA. When in rome do as the romans.

The chinese literaly spit out bones during dinner. Thats not bad manner its different.

Dont expect the whole world to be like Indiana.
After all germans have to let it pass when the americans invade their personal space when they visit the USA.



I'm sure they would. As in "Americans seem to want us to keep our hands to ourselves and quit pushing and shoving on them - crazy Yanks!" :rolleyes:

No not crazy yanks. You just have a different personal space.

Germany is smaller and more crowded than the USA. That changes the personal space from the ground.

You show the signs of an expat who just cant handle differences. ;)



1st edit

Don't get me wrong - I generally like the German people. I've learned to just accept this one peculiar trait. They drive in the same manner - very aggressively. We were on the autobahn for much of our trip, and often hit speeds of 180 KPH (about 135 MPH). Even at these high speeds, we were often tailgated and then passed (with a roar) by cars going MUCH faster than we were.

It's a bit unsettling!

Its not unsettling. You always have to drive on the right side of the road. If there is someone you want to pass you switch to the left lane and pass. After that you switch back.

So you drove 180 kmh on the left lane? I have to laugh. There is always someone who is faster than you.
Ideally the autobahn has 3 lanes.
from right to left: 1st lane is for trucks, those who are afraid to go fast and cars going on and off the autobahn.
2nd lane is for people like you and me and trucks who want to pass other trucks(which usually takes an hour). Though 180 could be too much for it.
3rd lane is for passing someone and those who need to go somewhere quick. If you see a car behind you on the 3rd lane switch to the 2nd one. Thats the law. And 180 on the 3rd is not much.

If there are only two lanes there is usually a speed restriction in place.



2nd edit

Beautiful building in Nuremburg

If i remember right thats the St Elisabeth church. Been some time since i've been to Nürnberg.
 
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