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As we learn about Mother Tamil and matriarchal society, patriarchal society

River Sea

Well-Known Member
@GoodAttention
More questions I have.

Greeks were Pharaohs in ancient Egypt yet later traveled away from ancient Egypt to Rome, Italy. How come?

How come these Greek descendants didn't bring with them this word 'Pharaohs' to the rulers of Rome—no longer calling themselves Pharaohs?

Example: Pontius Pilate could be called a pharaoh.
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
@Bharat Jhunjhunwala

Burnt bake bricks all over Indus Valley using a lot of straw

No need for a lot of straw in Ancient Egypt

This is during 1500 BCE

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala claims Tamil language happened after Yadavas left Indus Valley yet @GoodAttention claims Tamil language happened way before 1500 BCE in ancient India

@GoodAttention is communicating this era around 1900 BCE while @Bharat Jhunjhunwala communicates around 1500 BCE

@GoodAttention

(1) 3000 BCE and prior, specifically trade between Indian communinities and Ancient Egypt.
(2) 4.2ky event, and the movements of people around this time
(3) 1900 BCE when the migrations both into and out of, the Indus valley started
 
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River Sea

Well-Known Member
(1) 3000 BCE and prior, specifically trade between Indian communinities and Ancient Egypt.
(2) 4.2ky event, and the movements of people around this time
(3) 1900 BCE when the migrations both into and out of, the Indus valley started

3000 BCE is in the 3rd millennium BC, which is the Early to Middle Bronze Age.

1900 BCE is 2nd millennium BC which is bronze age
Yes, 1900 BCE falls within the 2nd millennium BC, which is generally considered to be the Bronze Age across many regions of the world,

4.2. ky confuses me

I look online to remind me


1728675797470.png


The 4.2-kiloyear (thousand years) BP aridification event (long-term drought), also known as the 4.2 ka event,[2] was one of the most severe climatic events of the Holocene epoch.[3] It defines the beginning of the current Meghalayan age in the Holocene epoch.

@GoodAttention
What is that, I don't know? The BP aridification event? Any Tamil situations in that?
 
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River Sea

Well-Known Member
I referred to makkal in comment #4

@GoodAttention
Please continue with your researching of Tamil.

makkal in comment 4

The Tamil word for daughter is மகள் (magal), but adding the special letter becomes மஃகள் (makkal) meaning all humans.

The Tamil word for daughter is magal but adding the special letter makkal meaning all humans

So makkal meaning all humans

So makkal meaning all humans., I'll remember that.

makkal means all humans

I'll practice that so it's remembered, I'll type that for a while, makkal means all humans

This does not mean Tamil language is "first" or "best", no, it specifically says that we are human family, makkal, equality.

makkal means all humans family equality
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
@GoodAttention you know how to express your emotions publicly, I do not know how to express emotions publicly

Christian "white-washing" is cultural rape, and should be treated like Operation Hydra against Nazi Germany.

Explain this in the Tamil language with Mother Tamil

makkal means all humans family equality

Does this include those people who you chose to express your emotions at and treated like the Operation Hydra against Nazi Germany? Are these people also included as Makkal too? All humans have family equality. Do you mean all humans?

Please explain
 

GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
@GoodAttention you know how to express your emotions publicly, I do not know how to express emotions publicly

Negative emotions cloud judgement, even if a point is being made.

Explain this in the Tamil language with Mother Tamil

Those are my words written in English.

I also don't speak Tamil except for very basic or "market" conversation, nor write it, but I can understand the sounds of letter and add them phonetically.

Does this include those people who you chose to express your emotions at and treated like the Operation Hydra against Nazi Germany? Are these people also included as Makkal too? All humans have family equality. Do you mean all humans?

Please explain

All family is all family. Yes I mean all humans, human family is makkal.

At the same time I did not choose my family, I can hate them, be angry at them, or love them, help them. Note that I only joined this site 4 months ago, and my views and knowledge has been evolving ever since. I did not even realise I would come back full circle to my own language when I started here.

I feel the message is ancient, being that we should always consider ourselves family or related to each other. It is ancient democracy, if we are all family we are all equal. In Western democracies were are all equal, but we do not consider ourselves one family. As much as I would like to think the consideration of makkal to be timeless, and it is, we live in a world today where we are defined as individuals. Now I like to remember both especially when I express myself.
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
I feel the message is ancient, being that we should always consider ourselves family or related to each other. It is ancient democracy, if we are all family we are all equal. In Western democracies were are all equal, but we do not consider ourselves one family. As much as I would like to think the consideration of makkal to be timeless, and it is, we live in a world today where we are defined as individuals. Now I like to remember both especially when I express myself.

@GoodAttention
Is this Western democracy? I am confused by your words, 'Christian white washing.' What is that? Is this whitewashing, however, was the word Christian of yet?


Tiberius had a brilliant military career and with his younger brother Drusus helped carry out the expansion of the Roman empire along the Danube and into modern day Germany (16 BC - 7 BC, 4 AD - 9 AD). In 11 BC, Augustus forced Tiberius to divorce his wife Vipsania and marry Julia, Augustus' daughter.

I'm trying to understand you, @GoodAttention

Please explain to me when Western democracies came about and when Christian whitewashing came about, so we can put a time frame on this as you kept telling me you're researching. Also, do you plan on getting rid of more people, as you're using this quote to do so?


Christian "white-washing" is cultural rape, and should be treated like Operation Hydra against Nazi Germany.

How many people do you plan to be treated with this operation, Hydra? Is it 100, 1000, or 10,000 people, or how many are you planning for this? As you're researching this

(1) 3000 BCE and prior, specifically trade between Indian communinities and Ancient Egypt.

(2) 4.2ky event, and the movements of people around this time

(3) 1900 BCE when the migrations both into and out of, the Indus valley started

The timeline I am focused on is the following

(1) 3000 BCE and prior, specifically trade between Indian communinities and Ancient Egypt.
(2) 4.2ky event, and the movements of people around this time
(3) 1900 BCE when the migrations both into and out of, the Indus valley started

How would Mother Tamil be in this situation as your plans are to get rid of people?
 

GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
@GoodAttention
Is this Western democracy? I am confused by your words, 'Christian white washing.' What is that? Is this whitewashing, however, was the word Christian of yet?

I wrote those words on August 23 2024 and was in reponse to a different discussion.

"White-washing" I use to refer to the dominance of one group over another, a sign of patriarchal or Dorian type mentality.

This is in contrast to Ionian type mentality.


I'm trying to understand you, @GoodAttention

Please explain to me when Western democracies came about and when Christian whitewashing came about, so we can put a time frame on this as you kept telling me you're researching. Also, do you plan on getting rid of more people, as you're using this quote to do so?



How many people do you plan to be treated with this operation, Hydra? Is it 100, 1000, or 10,000 people, or how many are you planning for this? As you're researching this

The term Hydra was used metaphorically. The meaning of those words were not to be taken literally.

No, I do not plan on treating anyone with this operation.

If you want to discuss further then it is best I answer in that thread, so that my words can remain within context.

How would Mother Tamil be in this situation as your plans are to get rid of people?

It is not.

Mother Tamil stands alone. I am not the King of Mother Tamil, nor do I claim ownership to it.

My words do not reflect any plans to get rid of people. I have never had such a thought.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Hence it is my firm belief that the Tamil culture started as an Ionian society, and this is could be reflected in what we know of the Indus Valley Civilization.
So, the Greeks came so early or Tamils are actually Greeks? And how is that reflected in the Indus Valley civilization?
"Kahin ki eent, kahin ka roda;Bhanumati ne kunba joda." (Hindi proverb)
(Take a brick from somewhere and sand from another place, and Bhanumati has created her house)
It does not matter that the components are dissimilar.

Nice story like in other scriptures, but every one of them is false. The oldest mother that we know of is Lucy (Australopithecus afarensis), who lived 3.2 million years ago.
 
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GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
So, the Greeks came so early or Tamils are actually Greeks? And how is that reflected in the Indus Valley civilization?

Ionian and Dorian are simple labels used to categorise societies, not to say relationship between Greeks and Tamils or IVC.
BUT, when we look at what we know of IVC we do not see temples or palaces. We do not even know of any royal family whatsoever.
So, why so different to the Sumerian and Egyptian civilizations of the same time?

"Kahin ki eent, kahin ka roda;Bhanumati ne kunba joda." (Hindi proverb)
(Take a brick from somewhere and sand from another place, and Bhanumati has created her house)
It does not matter that the components are dissimilar.

To the victor go the spoils my friend.
It does not matter that the components are dissimilar?
Equally it should matter when the components are similar.
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
All family is all family. Yes I mean all humans, human family is makkal.

@GoodAttention I understand we're all family and that there's no separation

"Kahin ki eent, kahin ka roda;Bhanumati ne kunba joda." (Hindi proverb)
(Take a brick from somewhere and sand from another place, and Bhanumati has created her house)

@Aupmanyav @GoodAttention

The freedom Bhanumati had so she could build herself a home with brick and sand would be during patriarchal society? Sand and brick would make mud bricks with no straw. Yes, this is possible to do.

Who is Bhanumati?

Bhanumati: Granddaughter of Krishna

Bhānumati (Sanskrit:भानुमती), meaning – "luminous" or "shining like the Sun", is derived from the word, Bhānu (Sanskrit:भानु). In the Rig Vedic parlance, Bhanu is an epithet of the Maruts and means - "variegated colour", "shining with light" or "shining like a serpent" or "causing the motion of the wind"
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Who is Bhanumati?
Bhanumati: Granddaughter of Krishna
Nice, you are learning.
But the things selected should match. Don't you think so?

What Bhasnumati did in the proverb is to select things which were not matching. The result, then, would be a mismatch.
That is what happens when one tries to make Yadavas into Hebrews.
Dr. Bharat Jhunjhunwala has done what Bhanumati did.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
BUT, when we look at what we know of IVC we do not see temples or palaces. We do not even know of any royal family whatsoever.
Possible that IVC cities were 'Ganarajyas'. We too had various systems of 'Ganarajyas, sort of city republics) - with hereditary kings, elected kings, oligarchy, governed by those chosen by people (sort of modern republics).
Perhaps the people had not learnt to show-off by that time. As for temples, even a rock or a tree will do for Hindus. They are just representations.
Murti - what becomes physicalized - murta.
We do have the Mohenjodaro Ouranos/Varuna/Shiva/the Sindhi Jhule Lal (whichever) and Mother Goddess seals or sculptures.
 
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GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
@GoodAttention

Their relationship with Terah and Abram, as well as their travels, would be considered a matriarchal or patriarchal society, or could they possibly combine the two?


My opinion regarding your question is that Terah and Abram would not be considered a "society" given they are both individuals. However they are considered patriarchs who are important male ancestors to the story written in the Hebrew scriptures.

Of interest to me are the "cultural norms" for Rebekkah, who is the descendant of Terah (twice) through Haran via Milcah, and also Nahor, when it comes to marriage. Specifically, there seems to be a dowry type payment of sorts as she is gifted with both gold bangles and a nose ring/forehead jewelry, when being betrothed to Isaac. The servant on behalf of Abraham must also acknowledge Rebekkah's consent to marriage, as directed by her family, before she travels with him. This, to me, reflects at the very least a significant level of respect for women which could reflect sex-equality/ matriarchal-type society, in contrast to other societies of the time. The line “I am the daughter of Bethuel, the son that Milkah bore to Nahor" (Genesis 24:24) spoken by Rebekkah seems to both emphasize herself as daughter and acknowledge her grandmother, although in conjunction/in balance with her father and grandfather. Later on in Genesis, Laban describes to Jacob the importance of "giving away" the first daughter before the second, again dictating the "cultural norm" of their upbringing.

The relationship with Terah and Abram is a shadow in comparison to the relationship that exists between Abram, Sarai, and God. If Abraham is a patriarch, then I see Sarah being a matriarch in conjunction. It is my opinion that there is acknowledgement of the importance of both women and mothers in this story, in addition to Abraham "the father". So we could say the story does combine both matriarchal and patriarchal respect, taking also from the understanding that Sarai is considered a "daughter" of Terah.
 
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GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
@GoodAttention I understand we're all family and that there's no separation



@Aupmanyav @GoodAttention

The freedom Bhanumati had so she could build herself a home with brick and sand would be during patriarchal society? Sand and brick would make mud bricks with no straw. Yes, this is possible to do.

Who is Bhanumati?

Bhanumati: Granddaughter of Krishna

Bhānumati (Sanskrit:भानुमती), meaning – "luminous" or "shining like the Sun", is derived from the word, Bhānu (Sanskrit:भानु). In the Rig Vedic parlance, Bhanu is an epithet of the Maruts and means - "variegated colour", "shining with light" or "shining like a serpent" or "causing the motion of the wind"


This is an interesting story and/or proverb, but to me is the best example of a patriarchal society.
Yes, she builds her house from bricks that she "got" from "somewhere", and sand she got from elsewhere.
Some can say the result is a mismatch, so then why does she build the house at all?
Be grateful you have a roof over your head, dear granddaughter of Krisna.
Lest you think of where the materials came from.

To me this is ancient sarcasm and I find the proverb quite humerous because, as "they" also say, if you don't laugh, you cry.
 

GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
Possible that IVC cities were 'Ganarajyas'. We too had various systems of 'Ganarajyas, sort of city republics) - with hereditary kings, elected kings, oligarchy, governed by those chosen by people (sort of modern republics).
Perhaps the people had not learnt to show-off by that time. As for temples, even a rock or a tree will do for Hindus. They are just representations.
Murti - what becomes physicalized - murta.
We do have the Mohenjodaro Ouranos/Varuna/Shiva/the Sindhi Jhule Lal (whichever) and Mother Goddess seals or sculptures.


A friend forwarded me a video on TikTok that I thought you could be interested in.

I wonder if our ancient ancestors did this in the sand to "show off" :tearsofjoy:

How to "open" a triangle (without the use of psychedelics), with 12 moves in total, plus 1 move if counting the drawing of a triangle :)


Edit - *link to TikTok deleted *
 
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GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
What is cultural norms vs not norms?


I refer to "cultural norms" meaning what was considered "normal" for the culture that Rebekkah was from/"adopted" into.

I believe Genesis explains this as I describe in comment #34, hence why I consider the culture or society of Nahor/Milcah/Rebekkah to be closer to Ionian or sex-equality in nature, than say Dorian or patriarchal in nature.

My opinion is, this was in contrast to what was considered "normal" for the culture of Jacob, son of Abraham/Sarah/Isaac.
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
I refer to "cultural norms" meaning what was considered "normal" for the culture that Rebekkah was from/"adopted" into.

I believe Genesis explains this as I describe in comment #34, hence why I consider the culture or society of Nahor/Milcah/Rebekkah to be closer to Ionian or sex-equality in nature, than say Dorian or patriarchal in nature.

My opinion is, this was in contrast to what was considered "normal" for the culture of Jacob, son of Abraham/Sarah/Isaac.

River Sea said
@Bharat Jhunjhunwala my understanding of Isaac living in Indus Valley ancient India. So that means Rebekah living in Indus Valley India

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala what did the Yadavas think about Isaac and Rebekah in Indus Valley ancient India

So your thoughts @Bharat Jhunjhunwala about Ironian with the Yadavas tribe with Rebekah who was married to Isaac?
 
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