Aside From Being Self Serving, Can Religious Faith Ever Be Rational?

[Valjean]

As far as I'm c

Yes,

Firstly religious faith is first built on experience not different than other things in life. People experience a sense that there is meaning in life apart from the materialistic world. Call this a sense of the divine. We may interpret that sense differently, whether it is mana, or pantheism, or monotheism, or whatnot. And there are those whose Divine radar is broken just as there are those born blind or deaf. Nevertheless we can say that this sense of the Divine is a universal trait among human beings. We either trust our senses, or we succumb to the belief that we are all insane and we can no longer function.

Secondly it is reasoned from probability. When something is probably true, it is not a for sure thing that it is true, which is why it takes faith, but it's a good gamble. Human beings do this ALL THE TIME. Why shouldn't we then do this with religion?

According to Christianity and Islam, one's eternal life depends on getting it right. Religious correctness is the most important decision you'll ever make.

I should think that a decision between eternity in heaven vs a lake of fire would motivate anyone to spend all his waking hours in intensive theological research.

 

[ChanaR]

According to Christianity and Islam, one's eternal life depends on getting it right. Religious correctness is the most important decision you'll ever make.

I should think that a decision between eternity in heaven vs a lake of fire would motivate anyone to spend all his waking hours in intensive theological research.

I realize that Islam and many forms of Christianity teach that you get it right or else, but I just can't believe that. The human mind is imperfect, and the information on the Divine is scant -- it's difficult to make decisions when we have minimal perceptions and so many competing ideas all clamoring to be heard. The best of people are bound to make mistakes. "Getting it right" seems more of a chance circumstance than anything else. I can't believe a loving God would torment people in hell based on a roll of the dice.

 

[Kenny]

Okay, but how about explaining the nature of rational faith in the spiritual realm, which I take to mean religion. Aside from being self serving, in what way is such faith rational?

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As I mentioned before, there can be irrational faith, both natural and spiritual.

I noticed you keep saying self-serving. Just to make sure I understand it correctly:

1) Self serving is when it's all about you?
2) Not self serving is when its about helping someone else?

 

[metis]

1) Self serving is when it's all about you?
2) Not self serving is when its about helping someone else?

No, 3.Self-serving is when my wife says "Get off your butt and get it yourself!". The oppression I live under.

 

[Skwim]

I noticed you keep saying self-serving. Just to make sure I understand it correctly:

1) Self serving is when it's all about you?
2) Not self serving is when its about helping someone else?

By "self-serving" I mean those reasons for religious faith that benefit oneself, which I find to be quite rational. I think it's quite rational to do those things to make one's life better---as long as they don't adversely impact others. If you have religious faith because it eases your daily burden, that would be rational. So, what I'm asking is, aside from such personal benefits, is religious faith in any other way rational?

Hey, and thank you for being one of the first to ask an intelligent question that's germane to the issue.
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[Kenny]

By "self-serving" I mean those reasons for religious faith that benefit oneself, which I find to be quite rational. I think it's quite rational to do those things to make one's life better---as long as they don't adversely impact others. If you have religious faith because it eases your daily burden, that would be rational. So, what I'm asking is, aside from such personal benefits, is religious faith in any other way rational?

Hey, and thank you for being one of the first to ask an intelligent question that's germane to the issue.
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I would say "yes", with the caveat that there is an "irrational faith" that can hurt oneself as well as others.

Not to flood the answer with scriptures, perhaps examples would be better (assuming that I got the gist of what you are attempting to address)

Knowing that there are things that one would like to buy, it isn't the first time that someone says "I am going to take what i could have spent for myself and make a commitment to support someone who is in poverty in another country." because faith said "don't forget the poor".

Or, "I could go to Disney-world, but instead I'm taking a mission trip to help people in need."

When I was selling electronic typewriters (what is that? ) - where it was commission based only, I would take 2 hours a week to minister in prison, although I could have been selling.

There are many applications as such in a wide variety of applications from family, marriage, sex-slavery (delivering people from it) etc.

Did I miss the point?

 

[Cougarbear]

Aside From Being Self Serving, Can Religious Faith Ever Be Rational?

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Ask Mother Teresa. Was she self serving? Was here religious faith irrational? Jesus said, Love (serve) the Lord thy God with all your heart, mind and strength. And, love (serve) your neighbor as thy self. When you are in the service of your neighbor you are in the service of your God.

 

[Kenny]

No, 3.Self-serving is when my wife says "Get off your butt and get it yourself!". The oppression I live under.

Metis, i can always count on you to bring the wisdom that is necessary for constructive and instructive dialogue.

My humble thanks! Hopefully one day I can achieve this greatness

 

[Jim]

Hopefully this makes some sense as to what I'm getting at. I'm sure I can at some point find a more succinct way to express this.

It makes very good sense to me.

 

[Segev Moran]

---Keep in mind that faith is nothing more than trust in belief---

I think the term rational is very confusing here.
Rational is something subjective.
So i assume every religious person have he's own rational regarding his beliefs.

What seem rational to me might not seem rational to you.

I will assume you've meant rational in the form of does a religious faith can make sense in a skeptical POV...
If not, please LMK what you've meant

So... IMO, the answer is yes (wasn't always like that, btw).
I (surprisingly) found that the religion i am now beginning to become a part of, is the most rational thing i have ever encountered to the point that i find my self "embarrassed" that i have missed that for so long.

I am not talking about spiritual ideas like angels, heaven or hell and things like that, rather the understanding of every phenomena in our reality that suddenly fits together.

Things that science only recently begins to understand has been there for hundreds of years. written in black on white. clear and simple without a way to misinterpret them.

 

[Milton Platt]

---Keep in mind that faith is nothing more than trust in belief---


Yes

Because ______________________________________________________________________________________.
​

No

Because ______________________________________________________________________________________ .

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Faith (or belief without sufficient evidence) is not rational. It can be rationalized, but that is not the same thing. Since there is nothing one cannot believe based upon faith alone, it is not a dependable pathway to truth. Pretty much all religions require faith, and yet they believe different things, including different gods.

 

[Skwim]

Faith (or belief without sufficient evidence) is not rational.

I disagree. As I said in post 11

"While driving I stop at a controlled four-way stop intersection. Just after I stop, a car to my left also comes to a stop. Now, from years of driving experience I have come to believe, not know, that the driver of the other car will recognize my right of way and let me go through the intersection before he does. So, operating on my belief, I trust, have faith, that this is what he will do and not T-bone me as I proceed."

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[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ask Mother Teresa. Was she self serving?

Yes.

Was here religious faith irrational?

From what I’ve heard of her, it seems so.