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Ask a Catholic
- Thread starter Spiderman
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
There are many events in our lives that we can appreciate and be thankful for, and those that are shared with others is good reason to celebrate. Obviously, what we may choose to celebrate will vary from person to person.
You draw a differentiation between what you call "secular" and your religious convictions, whereas I don't. Instead, I take more the position of Baruch Spinoza and Einstein that there really cannot be such a division. Matter of fact, Spinoza often called God by a different name: "Nature"-- and he used that to be all-inclusive. By that, he believed that everything we see is basically God or at least a reflection of God. Einstein took much the same position, thus physics, mathematics, and all other such disciplines are attempts to better understand God.
To them, the idea of worship in order to be "saved" was "childish", which was Einstein's label for that activity that he saw as being fruitless, instead feeling that the best way to better understand God was through study. Through study and contemplating the evidence is the best way, iho, versus spending hours of using mumbo-jumbo words and then thinking we're somehow "saved" if we have politically-correct beliefs and say the magic words.
And this is where I'm coming from, thus rejecting what I believe is a medieval approach based on nothing more than hearsay written by people 2000-3000 years ago written by those we cannot know much of anything about and, whereas, most of that which they teach is virtually impossible to verify. For examples, how could one possibly go about finding evidence for Jesus rising from the dead or Mohammed's being shown heaven on the "night of power"? How could we go about saying one of them is right but the other is wrong?
So, this is where our approach really differs, namely that your approach is nothing short of a blind faith devoid of evidence, whereas Spinoza's/Einstein's/my approach is to use evidence to try and understand God better, learn from that, and then apply that to our lives.
However, I still have much respect for religion in general because any approach that encourages us to go in the direction of compassion and justice is at least going in the right direction, imo. Therefore, I can walk into any synagogue, church, mosque, temple, etc., and feel at home, and that is exactly what I have done and continue to do. It's not being a "hypocrite"-- it's being respectful of others, and I'm more than happy to celebrate with them what they believe, thus that's what I do.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
So I want to "ask a Catholic" is there any evidence that Jesus actually rose from the tomb on Sunday morning? The Bible says that people went to the tomb early Sunday morning and found it empty. They did not see Jesus rise from the tomb, it was empty when they got there. So did He rise 5 minutes before they got there, or maybe an hour, or maybe several hours? I can see nothing that says He rose on Sunday morning. Maybe it was Saturday evening? Maybe Saturday evening would not be "three days and three nights." But Friday evening to Sunday morning is also not three days and three nights. So is there any other evidence that specifically shows Jesus left the tomb on Sunday morning? Or is this just another tradition.
Serenity Now
Member
The Passover represents the old covenant, Christ is the new covenant and fulfillment of the old.
The real presence of Christ is in the Eucharist. I can completely understand how this is hard to believe as it is something that really needs to be experienced. Through prayer and an open heart I found the real presence and that is the number 1 reason I am Catholic and will never leave the Church.
If you truly are interested go to your local library and find a book on the Catholic Mass because the more you understand the biblical basis for each event the more meaningful it is.
Catholicism is almost impossible to explain to a point of understanding. It is something that has to be experienced with an open heart to understand the Eucharistic celebration that is the Mass.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
went to catholic schools.....made application to a seminary....
but just as well they chose someone else.
I get the dogma.....I just don't lean on it
Do this in memory of Me.....is the instruction.
the rest is symbolic .
Demonslayer
Well-Known Member
I was raised in a very devout Catholic family, mass every Sunday from age 1 until I moved out and went to college. I have the absolute opposite view, mass is repetitive, boring and trying to pass of transubstantiation as a real magic trick always made me feel like my intelligence was being insulted, even when I was young.
Beside which, the Catholic Church is a criminal organization that I'm ashamed to have ever been associated with.
Demonslayer
Well-Known Member
It was just a joke. The "mostly dead" quote is from a funny scene from the movie "The Princess Bride."
Serenity Now
Member
Yes I am aware of your situation and pray daily for your salvation and peace for your mother as well who loves you very much.
Serenity Now
Member
Then I offer you the peace and hope you have a meaningful Holy Week.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I breathe every breath and drink every drink.....
not just Holy Week
Serenity Now
Member
Thanks be to God.
Demonslayer
Well-Known Member
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I don't feel that way. Yes, there are some really rotten apples within the church both historically and presently, but there's some very nice apples and it has been my please to know plenty of them. As long as any organization is run by and attended by people, there's always going to be a mixture of apples. The church has done a lot of good over the centuries, but also a lot of bad.
Serenity Now
Member
Let's discuss the bad for a second because there is a huge media bias against the Church:
First Historically:
- Crusades - The Catholic Church is very often condemned for crusades but the fact is that Christians in the Byzantine Church were being slaughtered by Muslim militants and the crusades were started to stop it. Were there abuses? Yes but at that time in history armies had no other choice but do some of the things they did to resupply and much of what they did was common practice of all entities. Furthermore Muslim aggression stretched into Europe and if not for the Pope's and the precedent of the crusades to call the faithful to arms, it is very likely western civilation as we know it would have fallen and we would be under Sharia law as we speak.
- Inquisitions - There is really no excuse for this and much of it was caused by greedy monarchs to obtain more power and misguided priest who were many times were in conflict with Rome on this issue.
- Indulgences - The Church had been condemned for selling indulgences but what they were really doing was granting indulgences for charitable works. However the practice did get out of hand, caused terrible confusion and justly the practices were changed. However the criticisms of what happened are way over blown.
- Excommunication of Bad People - Many have condemned the Church for not excommunicating bad people like Hitler. What the majority of people do not understand is that excommunication is a process that cuts a person off from the sacraments in order to reform them and bring they hopefully back into full communion with the Church. It is not an automatic sentence of damnation and they Church has no such authority and never declares anyone to have been damned regardless of who they were or what they did. The Church only recognizes Saints period.
- Child Molestation - Terrible and zero excuse made worst by the Church's cover ups. It doesn't matter that the estimates are at 4% of Priest (which matches general population of pedophiles) and that many innocent priest were accused the Church should have allowed due process for all and let secular authorities and courts sort it out. Their failure to do so has damaged the Church but fortunately this is being address and radical changes are being made under Pope Francis. The Church will have to live with this and own it forever and it is unfortunate.
Serenity Now
Member
Evolution is not in opposition to Christian theology as long as you attribute it to God. It's ridiculous to ignore proven scientific evidence.
The Mormonator
Kolob University
The Mormonator
Kolob University
What "proven scientific evidence"? I have never seen anything more than conjecture and supposition being passed off as scientific fact. The truth is, there are no facts.
Any "Christian" who sells out to the notion of organic evolution is easily fooled....and a deserter. God "created" living things, he did not create evolution.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
You cheapen your religious viewpoint by ignoring reality, and the basic ToE, which should even be just plain old common sense (all material items change over time, and genes are material items), is part of that reality. Here's a basic link that not only will explain the process for you, but will also provide links to scientific studies and the evidence they provide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
And isn't it rather hypocritical to demand evidence from the scientific community for evolution, of which there is a mountain of, but then claim to know about a deity that literally has no objectively-determined evidence to warrant anything beyond just blind belief? How can you demand evidence for one but not the other?
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