Ask a nondual "person"

[SalixIncendium]

Notice that you are the one who initially responded to my question with a question..

I apologize. I know that's now how conversation works.

I wanted to ensure pursuing the line of questioning wouldn't be an exercise in futility. Parties in a discussion need to agree on terms before engaging in discourse. In this case, we were not in agreement, so is saved a good deal of unfruitful discussion.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

I apologize. I know that's now how conversation works.

I wanted to ensure pursuing the line of questioning wouldn't be an exercise in futility. Parties in a discussion need to agree on terms before engaging in discourse. In this case, we were not in agreement, so is saved a good deal of unfruitful discussion.

I am already aware of what Eastern religion teaches about pain and suffering - escapism.

If someone bullies you once, it’s wise to remind yourself that pain is inevitable and to brush it off. If someone makes a pattern of bullying you, and that becomes a regular part of your reality, then it is no longer wise to suppress the desire for a better reality.

Eastern philosophy fails to grasp that pain is like a bully where avoidance is not an option. It will continue to encroach on you more and more over time. Any belief system that teaches that it is wrong to desire for less pain and death in the world should be seriously questioned in my view.

Am I mis-characterizing all of this as escapism? Am I mistaken about pain in comparing it to a bully?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

This is why I can't answer your questions, because your views on suffering are far different from mine.

In my view, suffering is a reaction to pain. I've posted this elsewhere on this forum...

Buddhism speaks of two arrows. When adversity comes, two arrows fly in our direction. Being struck by an arrow is painful. What determines suffering is how one reacts to being struck. One can focus on the pain of that first arrow and remain ignorant of the trajectory of the second, and be struck again which leads to suffering, or one can be aware that the pain of the first arrow is what it is, and shift focus to being aware that a second arrow is approaching and get out of the way.

The moral of the story is that you can focus on what is bringing you distress, or you can accept that what is causing pain is temporary and will run its course, do your best to navigate through, focus on the big picture, and have gratitude that which is in the world that brings you contentment.

Pain is inevitable...suffering is optional.

It's not the sovereign that bring suffering, but the individual who chooses to remain attached to the pain.

Do you think that sometimes you do need to sit and let the pain stun you temporarily?

 

[Zwing]

apparent plurality…appear on the substrate of an absolute rather than appearing from a single substance.

Will you elaborate upon this distinction, please?

 

[Zwing]

I don't even know what nondual means.

Essentially, that everything we perceive are manifestations of one absolute reality, such that there is no ultimate duality between them.

 

[Viswa]

I am already aware of what Eastern religion teaches about pain and suffering - escapism.

If someone bullies you once, it’s wise to remind yourself that pain is inevitable and to brush it off. If someone makes a pattern of bullying you, and that becomes a regular part of your reality, then it is no longer wise to suppress the desire for a better reality.

Eastern philosophy fails to grasp that pain is like a bully where avoidance is not an option. It will continue to encroach on you more and more over time. Any belief system that teaches that it is wrong to desire for less pain and death in the world should be seriously questioned in my view.

Am I mis-characterizing all of this as escapism? Am I mistaken about pain in comparing it to a bully?

Hi. Sorry. It's not meant that Escapism is not an option. You can choose Escapism, it's one's own decision and one have freedom to decide. But, Eastern philosophy only show the limitations of such choice. The Escapism won't bring Peace even though a better place one reaches from such escape. Whatever better reality you seek and attain, in time you will strive again to escape from such reality to another better reality too, and it will go endless. There is no Peace in such seeking, that's what Eastern philosophy point out, and it always give Freedom to everyone to choose (Either Bondage or Liberation).

 

[Viswa]

Your feelings are aligned with a different reality than your propositional beliefs are aligned with. You’ve decided that the latter reality is more real. I was there at one point as well, but I was deceived.

Oneness is the destination, but the story (which includes duality and non-duality) is more real.

The story is more real as long as you believe such way.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Whatever better reality you seek and attain, in time you will strive again to escape from such reality to another better reality too, and it will go endless. There is no Peace in such seeking, that's what Eastern philosophy point out, and it always give Freedom to everyone to choose (Either Bondage or Liberation).

Yes but you are arriving at better and better realities! This aversion to seeking a better reality and better world feels so lifeless and defeatist to me.

Thanks for the response though.

 

[Viswa]

Inspired by @VoidCat's Ask a nonbinary person thread. Ask me anything nondual (or about nonduality of you so wish). Keep in mind I'm only speaking from my own experience and no one else's and I don't speak on behalf of any religion or philosophy. Flood the thread with any argument you wish. I'm game. If you want to attack me or my view, I won't put you on ignore, but I will ignore you. However, I won't ignore you if you tell me I (mind and body) don't exist. I might even agree with you.

Belated Birthday wishes Salix.

My question is, If Mind-body don't exist, then what is experienced? Because Non-Duality says in a way that Atman/One cannot be Objectified. So, what is that which is experienced by one sensually/thoughtfully? And if there no Mind-body exist, how can there be thoughts-objects experienced? Then it means one should not keep trust upon ANY experience?

 

[Viswa]

Yes but you are arriving at better and better realities! This aversion to seeking a better reality and better world feels so lifeless and defeatist to me.

Thanks for the response though.

Lifeless and defeatist, is for the one who sees from this shore.

When you attain such peace, you won't feel either Lifeful or Lifeless. Neither succeeded Nor Defeatist.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Lifeless and defeatist, is for the one who sees from this shore.

When you attain such peace, you won't feel either Lifeful or Lifeless. Neither succeeded Nor Defeatist.

This peace is like hiding in a bedroom closet while the bully ravages your house and houseguests.

 

[Viswa]

This peace is like hiding in a bedroom closet while the bully ravages your house and houseguests.

you don't really attain better realities. It's like an energy you give upon such. There is a point where your energy/support to such reality attains saturation point. After that, it turns against you as your support is not necessary for those upon which you energized earlier. Why it attains saturation point is, one gets bored of the repeated pleasure of such realities. It's like a family. One may feel happy to be in a family which one created for themselves. It will be beautiful until one remains as a benefit to other family members. But, once such benefit starts to reduce then one becomes pain to others, and others start to make decisions which might even hurt that one, but others never care about that one as they start to feel that One as Pain and no benefit derived from that One.
So, at the start which is felt as a Better reality, start to produce suffering because being no more a benefit to such reality but only a burden.
This is cycle of life, and Death refreshes one for a new better life/reality one seek.

 

[Viswa]

This peace is like hiding in a bedroom closet while the bully ravages your house and houseguests.

It's also not hiding in a closet, but fight those ravages without any desire to live.
No Theistic Religion says to remain as a Monk in such battlefield, and that's where religion like Buddhism,etc. fails.
One has responsibility for such houseguests, and have to fight for their life but not for one's own for any desire for one's future.

Acting/Fighting Peacefully.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

you don't really attain better realities. It's like an energy you give upon such. There is a point where your energy/support to such reality attains saturation point. After that, it turns against you as your support is not necessary for those upon which you energized earlier. Why it attains saturation point is, one gets bored of the repeated pleasure of such realities. It's like a family. One may feel happy to be in a family which one created for themselves. It will be beautiful until one remains as a benefit to other family members. But, once such benefit starts to reduce then one becomes pain to others, and others start to make decisions which might even hurt that one, but others never care about that one as they start to feel that One as Pain and no benefit derived from that One.
So, at the start which is felt as a Better reality, start to produce suffering because being no more a benefit to such reality but only a burden.
This is cycle of life, and Death refreshes one for a new better life/reality one seek.

“It’s not possible so don’t even try. Just cope.”
This is such a poisonous, defeatist mindset and it’s glorified in the East.

 

[Viswa]

“It’s not possible so don’t even try. Just cope.”
This is such a poisonous, defeatist mindset and it’s glorified in the East.

No. You Misunderstood. It's possible. Try. But, it has it's own limitations. You will again suffer in time.

Never has to cope. Understand other one's desires who stand against you, even the thief/psycho who bullies. If you understand the limitations, you won't suffer even if the reality brings pain upon you.

It's not those action brings you pain, but misunderstanding/ignorance of limitations and seeking new limitations brings you sufferings.

 

[We Never Know]

Inspired by @VoidCat's Ask a nonbinary person thread. Ask me anything nondual (or about nonduality of you so wish). Keep in mind I'm only speaking from my own experience and no one else's and I don't speak on behalf of any religion or philosophy. Flood the thread with any argument you wish. I'm game. If you want to attack me or my view, I won't put you on ignore, but I will ignore you. However, I won't ignore you if you tell me I (mind and body) don't exist. I might even agree with you.

Is nondual something new or has it been around for centuries?

Are there many nondual people?

 

[RestlessSoul]

“It’s not possible so don’t even try. Just cope.”
This is such a poisonous, defeatist mindset and it’s glorified in the East.

I think that’s a but of a misconception if I may say so. It seems to me that what some of these eastern philosophies are saying - and some Christian mystics have echoed this message - is, accept life as it is, stop fighting anything and anyone, and in so doing become an agent for peace. And in the meantime, you still have to do your duty (Dharma).

 

[Treasure Hunter]

I think that’s a but of a misconception if I may say so. It seems to me that what some of these eastern philosophies are saying - and some Christian mystics have echoed this message - is, accept life as it is, stop fighting anything and anyone, and in so doing become an agent for peace. And in the meantime, you still have to do your duty (Dharma).

Yeah, it’s about time to get people to believe and dream bigger. Acceptance is a virtue in tandem with desire, but when desire is suppressed, acceptance becomes a vice.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yeah, it’s about time to get people to believe and dream bigger. Acceptance is a virtue in tandem with desire, but when desire is suppressed, acceptance becomes a vice.

Now since you answered a non OP writer, I can answer you.
Your subjective assumption is that your choice is objectively better. It is not. Neither is any other choice of how to deal with these matters. They are just subjectively different and there is no objective standard for that.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Do you think that sometimes you do need to sit and let the pain stun you temporarily?

Pain will do that on its own. I find the best reaction is to eliminate the cause and treat the pain while remaining detached from the pain itself.