GabrielWithoutWings
Well-Known Member
To what end? Is it used to make decisions or is it used to divine a course of action?
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Ask a Thelemite....
- Thread starter Octavia156
- Start date
To what end? Is it used to make decisions or is it used to divine a course of action?
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
I am thinking of making a thread called "Ask a Gnostic Anything" but I think it would be more comedic and Discordian if I did. Like this guy.
¡Ask a Mexican!® - Orange County - OC Weekly
I'll even take questions like Dear Abby
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
Ok OP why should a person take a person like Crowley seriously? What does Crowley have that I don't have?
Octavia156
OTO/EGC
I came to the same conclusion regarding Setianism. And I think the comparison is valid - the paths of the Setian and the Thelemic mystic system should be the same up until the grade of 7=4. SO, yes Setians willfully enter the Abyss with no desire to leave. However I can't comment fully as I haven't seen the curriculum or grade work for the Setian system up to the Abyss.
I'd also point out that BY DEFINITION in this case it would be impossible for a Setian to become a Master of the Temple (8=3), and impossible for them to obtain a New Word (Magus) (which Aquino claims to have done).
I put the Typhonians in a similar boat to the Scientologists... too sci-fi for me.
Octavia156
OTO/EGC
One of my favourite books and one I continually refer from.
The Qabala is very useful in Thelema as a practical Map for mystical and gnostic progress.
It helps the student come to a more fuller understanding of the "facets" of hir nature and allows for focused work on areas that need developing.
The Qabala IS the Tarot or the other way around... so again another useful Map for exploring the metaphysical aspects of the Mind and its relationship with everything else.
I could go on and on.... but in summary for me, The Qabala and in particular the Tree of Life and the 4 Worlds are THE most practically useful tool I have ever encountered.
Octavia156
OTO/EGC
Why should a person NOT take someone like Crowley seriously? I could equally ask - why would a person take Einstein seriously:
Before writing the Doors of Perception, Aldus Huxley was asked to interview the 3 greatest scientists on the World for an article. He interviewed Einstein, Schrodinger and Crowley.
(It was as a result of meeting Crowley for this interview the Huxley tried Mescaline and wrote the books we've come to love since.)
I, like Huxley am one of the many people who recognise Crowley as one of the greatest Philosophers and Scientists of our time. Plus he makes me Laugh!
That depends... who are you? :areyoucra
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
So it's hero worship.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
I like your answers so far Octavia, and it was great to hear about your travel to Egypt, even though the stele was not on display, you still visited the land were Thoth was revered and where magic was considered a legitimate branch of religion for thousands of years.
I have another question!
Where do you think your path will lead you to travel next?
I have another question!
Where do you think your path will lead you to travel next?
Jacksnyte
Reverend
Octavia156
OTO/EGC
Yeh, so true.
I know people in OTO that don't read Crowley.
For me its definitely not "Worship"
I'd define it as, Admiration; Respect & Gratitude
Octavia156
OTO/EGC
We love Egypt. its the regular destination for this: :beach: I went to climb Mt Sinai (for Dawn on Hadit day 2012) but we were not allowed to go due to the political turmoil. :sad4: My devotion was not strong enough to risk Bedouin kidnapping
I like to travel to so many places... Japan probably the most, Scandanavia sounds cool. I'd love to do Machu Pichu someday, and the Great Wall of China. I'm currently working with Martial Energy, if the opportunity arose I'd love to train Wing Tsun in China, that would be awesome.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
I climbed Mt Sinai to see the dawn when I was 16, it was quite spectacular! and you're right Sinai is experiencing some turmoil at the moment, several visitors have been kidnapped by Bedouin, and the area is used to target the Israeli city Eilat and the Israeli border.
:yes:
GabrielWithoutWings
Well-Known Member
In regards to the Gnostic Mass, I've watched a couple of youtube videos that showed the entire ceremony.
I noticed that there's no music or chant going on. Is it normal for the Gnostic Mass to simply be spoken? If so, I find that disheartening. Crowley would've surely known the inherent value of chant to create an otherwordly atmosphere and to greatly assist with memorization.
Something similar to this?
[youtube]VxmRy_ONG28[/youtube]
YouTube - Orthodox Divine Liturgy -Beatitudes,Mode 1
I noticed that there's no music or chant going on. Is it normal for the Gnostic Mass to simply be spoken? If so, I find that disheartening. Crowley would've surely known the inherent value of chant to create an otherwordly atmosphere and to greatly assist with memorization.
Something similar to this?
[youtube]VxmRy_ONG28[/youtube]
YouTube - Orthodox Divine Liturgy -Beatitudes,Mode 1
Octavia156
OTO/EGC
No
There SHOULD be Music in the Mass.
There are specific points where music is supposed to be played, and there are also bit that are suitable for drumming or other music.
Trouble is that picking music for the Mass is hard. Unless you have a musician who is competant to improvise over bits, which is the ideal. I saw an amazing Mass with a Sitar player who made it beautiful.
Some OTO bodies play music, but the toruble is, unless its been compses specifially, it can sound odd.
Or if its a known piece of music is can bring up other memories. I know one Oasis that use the Theme from the Fountain, which just makes me think of cancer and being depressed!
My partner is currently composing Music for the Mass, its really tricky to get it right, you have to really understand what's happening at the point of the ritual.... is it a climax? or a build up? an unveiling? etc.
Some Officer intone portions of the ritual rather than say it all - thats up to the individual
There SHOULD be Music in the Mass.
There are specific points where music is supposed to be played, and there are also bit that are suitable for drumming or other music.
Trouble is that picking music for the Mass is hard. Unless you have a musician who is competant to improvise over bits, which is the ideal. I saw an amazing Mass with a Sitar player who made it beautiful.
Some OTO bodies play music, but the toruble is, unless its been compses specifially, it can sound odd.
Or if its a known piece of music is can bring up other memories. I know one Oasis that use the Theme from the Fountain, which just makes me think of cancer and being depressed!
My partner is currently composing Music for the Mass, its really tricky to get it right, you have to really understand what's happening at the point of the ritual.... is it a climax? or a build up? an unveiling? etc.
Some Officer intone portions of the ritual rather than say it all - thats up to the individual
GabrielWithoutWings
Well-Known Member
Maybe it's just me. I just find it odd that there's no already established musical / chant tradition seeing as how Crowley seemed to be into universal vibrations and all that. My obvious high church, chanted liturgy snob is coming out here.
I'm almost surprised there's not a Middle Eastern-style musical tradition in Thelema, seeing as how it's all neo-Egyptian.
I'm almost surprised there's not a Middle Eastern-style musical tradition in Thelema, seeing as how it's all neo-Egyptian.
xkatz
Well-Known Member
I just read several of the posts in this thread Octavia, and you sure got me interested in learning more about Thelema now! 
The question I have is pertaining to one's destiny. I noticed how you emphasized on this in the OP. I was wondering if you believe a person's destiny is constant, or if it can possibly be changed throughout one's life?
The question I have is pertaining to one's destiny. I noticed how you emphasized on this in the OP. I was wondering if you believe a person's destiny is constant, or if it can possibly be changed throughout one's life?
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Octavia156
OTO/EGC
This is a really important question.
In Thelema we see Fate as a necessary effect of Will. That is was 'thine own Self' that caused you to incarnate on a particular course, under certain conditions - the orbit. Thus your destiny is set by your Soul, onmipotent and omniscient suspended in Eternity, having a particular Will to experience, choosing to fall into matter to do so.
However the descent through Chaos into matter is not without distortion. for one to incarnate you must bind yourself to time and space. You are born from darkness into a dualistic reality with no idea what you originally came here to experience.
We call things fate when they are life-altering and synchronous, often if its positive we say it ourselves, if its negative is usually other people judgeing. Only the individual can determine whether events are fate or not.
Fate is in Harmony with Free Will under Thelema.
I think when you become a Thelemite you stop calling it Fate and start calling it True Will. Fate to me now implies i can't take credit for it. I aim for my life altering synchronous events to be as a result of my Willed actions.
I think the Will is more powerful than we think, and the major life courses of individuals can be roughly laid out for them without any need for intervention or activity on their part soever. The apple rarely falls far from the tree. However at the same time, the obvious imbalances do suggest that the choices of the individuals do have an effect to a greater or lesser degree on their life courses: Thus, if you turned down that law offer, cause Daddy's Will to put you in Med school was stronger, now might be the time to take the bar and get off the prozac?
Thelema says True Will is Perfect Happiness. So the simple test is - Do you really know yourself and are you Happy? if not then perhaps you are off course....
As a Thelemite I am constatly attempting to make every act a Willed Act. Day to day even in the mundane, this comes into play. the simplest example is having that extra glass of wine when your Angel says don't do it, you're drunk so you ignore it. The next day you feel punished. physically with a hangover, and spiritually cause you know you acted unduly. The next problem is the constant battle with apathy and laziness. An example: you come to understand fully that is your Will to be able to defend yourself, so you take up a martial art. However in order to master the martial Art you have to submitt yourself to disciplined training. Thus, everytime you feel too tired to go to class, and don't go - you feel it deep down - you've not done your Will tonight - Shame on you Madam.
Thelema is like a constant process of Self Perfection. You're constantly asking what I am supposed to be doing here?
For this purpose we Objectify our concept of True Will in a literary term called the Holy Guardian Angel. The HGA knows the Original Will.
Thus the first stage in Thelemic Mysticism is have "knowledge and conversation" (again literary analogy here) with this 'being'. (not a being - just part of you, which is a part of ALL)
In Thelema we see Fate as a necessary effect of Will. That is was 'thine own Self' that caused you to incarnate on a particular course, under certain conditions - the orbit. Thus your destiny is set by your Soul, onmipotent and omniscient suspended in Eternity, having a particular Will to experience, choosing to fall into matter to do so.
However the descent through Chaos into matter is not without distortion. for one to incarnate you must bind yourself to time and space. You are born from darkness into a dualistic reality with no idea what you originally came here to experience.
We call things fate when they are life-altering and synchronous, often if its positive we say it ourselves, if its negative is usually other people judgeing. Only the individual can determine whether events are fate or not.
Fate is in Harmony with Free Will under Thelema.
I think when you become a Thelemite you stop calling it Fate and start calling it True Will. Fate to me now implies i can't take credit for it. I aim for my life altering synchronous events to be as a result of my Willed actions.
I think the Will is more powerful than we think, and the major life courses of individuals can be roughly laid out for them without any need for intervention or activity on their part soever. The apple rarely falls far from the tree. However at the same time, the obvious imbalances do suggest that the choices of the individuals do have an effect to a greater or lesser degree on their life courses: Thus, if you turned down that law offer, cause Daddy's Will to put you in Med school was stronger, now might be the time to take the bar and get off the prozac?
Thelema says True Will is Perfect Happiness. So the simple test is - Do you really know yourself and are you Happy? if not then perhaps you are off course....
As a Thelemite I am constatly attempting to make every act a Willed Act. Day to day even in the mundane, this comes into play. the simplest example is having that extra glass of wine when your Angel says don't do it, you're drunk so you ignore it. The next day you feel punished. physically with a hangover, and spiritually cause you know you acted unduly. The next problem is the constant battle with apathy and laziness. An example: you come to understand fully that is your Will to be able to defend yourself, so you take up a martial art. However in order to master the martial Art you have to submitt yourself to disciplined training. Thus, everytime you feel too tired to go to class, and don't go - you feel it deep down - you've not done your Will tonight - Shame on you Madam.
Thelema is like a constant process of Self Perfection. You're constantly asking what I am supposed to be doing here?
For this purpose we Objectify our concept of True Will in a literary term called the Holy Guardian Angel. The HGA knows the Original Will.
Thus the first stage in Thelemic Mysticism is have "knowledge and conversation" (again literary analogy here) with this 'being'. (not a being - just part of you, which is a part of ALL)
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It's probably best for you to start your own thread asking this since this thread is so old and the OP doesn't even post here anymore.