Ask About Islam

[KWED]

I find some of your wording to be odd. You sound like an Arabic speaker with a very good, but not perfect, understanding of English. Sentences such as, "The Quran is for the understanding", smacks of Arabic English. There have been a few others that have made me wonder about your story.

To be fair, this phenomenon seems not uncommon with English speaking converts. Watch videos of people like Tim Humble and Abdulraheem Green. Despite being white British, they sound like they are from the Middle East and English is a second language. Obviously an affectation, but odd nonetheless.

 

[KWED]

You truly believe you are treating RF Muslims because of your avertion toward Islam? From what I seen, most of what you do is making conflict between people.

Just an observation....

I debate religion online. Sometimes with Muslims, Sometimes Christians, recently with Baha'i quite a lot. The people I debate with are more than welcome to present counter arguments, in fact I welcome it. Is this what you mean by "conflict"?
Unfortunately, those counter arguments are rarely rational or reasonable, and are almost never supported by any kind of evidence.

Now, I appreciate that those on the opposite side of the debate from me (and others like me) feel like their beliefs are being threatened and attacked, but that is only because they sense the lack of evidential or rational support for their position so fall back on dogma and claims of offence, etc.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I debate religion online. Sometimes with Muslims, Sometimes Christians, recently with Baha'i quite a lot. The people I debate with are more than welcome to present counter arguments, in fact I welcome it. Is this what you mean by "conflict"?
Unfortunately, those counter arguments are rarely rational or reasonable, and are almost never supported by any kind of evidence.

Now, I appreciate that those on the opposite side of the debate from me (and others like me) feel like their beliefs are being threatened and attacked, but that is only because they sense the lack of evidential or rational support for their position so fall back on dogma and claims of offence, etc.

I do not feel any threats from you i have my belief and I follow it no matter what you say.

 

[KWED]

I do not feel any threats from you

You claimed that I wanted to create conflict. I was just explaining why you might feel that way.

i have my belief and I follow it no matter what you say.

That's not very open-minded nor rational, is it?
If you presented verifiable evidence and convincing argument, I would change my position.
Interesting how often religionists state (without a hint of irony) that nothing would ever change their mind, yet accuse atheists of being close-minded.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You claimed that I wanted to create conflict. I was just explaining why you might feel that way.

That's not very open-minded nor rational, is it?
If you presented verifiable evidence and convincing argument, I would change my position.
Interesting how often religionists state (without a hint of irony) that nothing would ever change their mind, yet accuse atheists of being close-minded.

Oh my understanding and mind change often within sufism when I realise something new.
I just dont take spiritual teaching from a non-believer

 

[KWED]

Oh my understanding and mind change often within sufism when I realise something new.
I just dont take spiritual teaching from a non-believer

I'm not providing "spiritual teaching".

 

[Spirit of Light]

I'm not providing "spiritual teaching".

So why do you keep telling "what the Quran actually say and mean" ?

 

[KWED]

So why do you keep telling "what the Quran actually say and mean" ?

Pointing out the content of a text is not "spiritual teaching" any more than correcting someone misquoting Einstein is.

When a Muslim says "Islam forbids killing", how is showing them the verses that permit killing "spiritual teaching"?
It is just "teaching".

 

[Spirit of Light]

Pointing out the content of a text is not "spiritual teaching" any more than correcting someone misquoting Einstein is.

When a Muslim says "Islam forbids killing", how is showing them the verses that permit killing "spiritual teaching"?
It is just "teaching".

Muslim are aware of the teaching, if you look at the Quran, there are verses that are oposit each othe4s many places in the Quran.

You may be aware that every situation a Muslim face have different answers to them, even neuanses, meanin the teaching is not black and white.

Every believer must use their head when dealing with daily life. Because every situation is different.

 

[KWED]

Muslim are aware of the teaching, if you look at the Quran, there are verses that are oposit each othe4s many places in the Quran.

You may be aware that every situation a Muslim face have different answers to them, even neuanses, meanin the teaching is not black and white.

Every believer must use their head when dealing with daily life. Because every situation is different.

Not so. In many circumstances Islam has strict an specific rules that must be followed. There is no place for individuals to use their own judgment in this context. What is haram is haram, for example. A Muslim can't say to themselves, "Well, not eating pork might have been a reasonable precaution in olden times, but with modern livestock farming and slaughter methods and regulations, and efficient transport and storage, there isn't really any need today".

Similarly, if someone claims that Islam forbids killing, they are simply wrong. It does not. There is no "nuance" or "different answers".

These things are literally in black and white!

 

[Spirit of Light]

Not so. In many circumstances Islam has strict an specific rules that must be followed. There is no place for individuals to use their own judgment in this context. What is haram is haram, for example. A Muslim can't say to themselves, "Well, not eating pork might have been a reasonable precaution in olden times, but with modern livestock farming and slaughter methods and regulations, and efficient transport and storage, there isn't really any need today".

Similarly, if someone claims that Islam forbids killing, they are simply wrong. It does not. There is no "nuance" or "different answers".

These things are literally in black and white!

Its a difference in "you can do it but should not do" and "you do it you die right there and then"

A Muslim is a human being who can chose to not follow the rules/guidelines, but then they also know that it will have consequences if they do it wrong.

So no black and white.

 

[muhammad_isa]

These things are literally in black and white!

No, they are not.
That is why we all have different opinions.

..take the cutting off of the hand of a thief.
One Muslim [ or atheist ] could claim that it means that somebody who is caught thieving should immediately have their hand cut off.

Personally, I see it in an entirely different light.
It is THE WORST CASE SCENARIO. It remains a legal option.
..and such sentencing acts as a deterrence to perpetual criminals.

 

[stevecanuck]

To be fair, this phenomenon seems not uncommon with English speaking converts. Watch videos of people like Tim Humble and Abdulraheem Green. Despite being white British, they sound like they are from the Middle East and English is a second language. Obviously an affectation, but odd nonetheless.

Come to think of it, I have noticed that in some jihadi converts. Since adopting Islam is one giant affectation, it's not a big leap to take on a bit of the cadence.

 

[stevecanuck]

No, they are not.

Except in case of emergency, can Muslims eat pork? Yes, no, or maybe?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Except in case of emergency, can Muslims eat pork? Yes, no, or maybe?

I think that scholars are unanimous on this.
Pork should not be eaten, unless one is forced to.

..so are you claiming that scholars teach that we should kill our neighbours if they are not Muslims?
Of course not. From what I've seen of your posts, you just take a few verses from Qur'an and have already made your mind up.
You want us all to think that the Islamic religion is evil etc.

 

[MyM]

Humans evolved as did all living things, denying this scientific fact is not a compelling argument for a creator deity, for which there is no objective evidence. You're also using a circular reasoning fallacy again.



You have already been told that evolution explains and evidences the origin of species, it makes no claims about the origins of life, which is an entirely different field of study. The fact you are ignorant of this is quite common among creationists, but the fact you are repeating after it, even after it has been explained, is dishonest. Again you surely can see how such dishonesty is received by those who know better, and what they must then infer about your arguments and beliefs.

It has been clear from the start, that like many theists, you use the word logic as rhetoric, and don't understand what it means. As you keep repeating the same common logical fallacies, even after they have been explained to you several times.

It is not a choice between evolution or creationism. Even were evolution entirely falsified, creationism would remain an unevidenced archaic myths, and I would still be compelled to disbelieve it.

It is your misunderstanding of your own knowledge. You say you can say all you want that you have proofs, but they are not proven in creation of the human being. You cannot prove it 100% nope.

So I guess this is where we draw the line, you go your way, I go mine. I do have a choice because I can prove mine and my proof is the Quran and Mohammad pbuh. You can deny all you want but that is not gonna bother me in the least. you keep on sayin it's a myth...I mean wouldn't a common sensible man think, "oh what if she is right?" wouldn't you think it would be the right thing to do is give it a chance...if you don't feel like it because of your sincere hate, at least try and disprove the sciences in the Quran. You might learn something really new

 

[stevecanuck]

I think that scholars are unanimous on this.
Pork should not be eaten, unless one is forced to.

Right. Some things are indeed black and white as KWED says. Also, it shouldn't take "scholars" to tell you that, "forbidden to you is the meat of the swine", means exactly what it says. If fact, it says so four times (2:173, 5:3, 6:145, 16:115). Do you really need "scholars" to figure that out for you?

..so are you claiming that scholars teach that we should kill our neighbours if they are not Muslims?
Of course not. From what I've seen of your posts, you just take a few verses from Qur'an and have already made your mind up.
You want us all to think that the Islamic religion is evil etc.

I read the Qur'an for instruction. If verse 9:29 (one of the last verses revealed) says to, "Fight those who believe not in God", then I don't see what "scholars" can add. It's pretty clear. Just ask anyone in AQ, ISIS, Al Shabab, etc.

 

[stevecanuck]

It is your misunderstanding of your own knowledge. You say you can say all you want that you have proofs, but they are not proven in creation of the human being. You cannot prove it 100% nope.

So I guess this is where we draw the line, you go your way, I go mine. I do have a choice because I can prove mine and my proof is the Quran and Mohammad pbuh. You can deny all you want but that is not gonna bother me in the least. you keep on sayin it's a myth...I mean wouldn't a common sensible man think, "oh what if she is right?" wouldn't you think it would be the right thing to do is give it a chance...if you don't feel like it because of your sincere hate, at least try and disprove the sciences in the Quran. You might learn something really new

I see we've reached the comedy portion of the program.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I read the Qur'an for instruction. If verse 9:29 (one of the last verses revealed) says to, "Fight those who believe not in God", then I don't see what "scholars" can add. It's pretty clear. Just ask anyone in AQ, ISIS, Al Shabab, etc.

I see, so you take a verse out of context, and then tell me I should ask a politcal group what whether G-d wants me to kill people?

Sorry. I'm not that stupid. I can work it out for myself, and if I need help, they would be the LAST people I would ask.

 

[stevecanuck]

I see, so you take a verse out of context,

Out of context? Is that all you could come up with? Does it say, "Fight those who believe not in God", or does it not?