Ask About Islam

[KWED]

I'm going to ask a third time.
Can you answer the question.
This question.
Valley - Hill - Mountain
Sea - River - Stream
The mountain is higher than the hill. The hill is higher than the valley.
The stream is higher than the river. The river is higher than the sea.

This is really simple stuff that I thought you might have the intelligence to comprehend as a starting point.
I can walk you through it step by step since you seem unable to keep up and it goes over your head.

Still don't get what you are trying to say, but your claim is nonsensical. Geographical features do not necessarily have relative heights.
There are valleys in the Himalayas that are higher than mountains in the UK. There is no official distinction between hills and mountains. They are determined as much by features as by elevation. A hill on the Colorado plateau will be higher than most mountains in Belgium.
The Yarlung Tsangpo River is higher than every stream in Australia.

As in the three classes of the Quran.
And ye shall be sorted out into three classes. 56:7

Do these verses sound delusional to you?

Do you think speaking to the valleys, hills, and the mountains is delusional?

Hear ye now what the Lord saith; Arise, contend thou before the mountains, and let the hills hear thy voice. Micah 6:1

Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen: Ezekiel 36:6

Do you think hearing the valleys, hills, and mountains all singing together delusional?

For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. Isaiah 55:12

The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing. Psalm 65:13

Do you think the trees clapping their hands is delusional?

Still no idea what your point is. Perhaps try just explaining it in simple terms rather than some kind of "stream of consciousness" religious fervour?

Do you think I am delusional?

You certainly sound confused.

 

[KWED]

Yeah. I agree it is bizarre. Very bizarre.
But it is meaningful and not just crazy nonsense.


Was the Lord displeased against the rivers? was thine anger against the rivers? was thy wrath against the sea, that thou didst ride upon thine horses and thy chariots of salvation? Habakkuk 3:8

The river is a river of peace:

O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea: Isaiah 48:18



They are measurements.

Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance? Isaiah 40:12


They are judgements.

But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Amos 5:24

There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High. Psalm 46:4



Its a starting point that we should be able to agree on that the words are at different heights.

Level1 - Level2 - Level3
Sea - River - Stream
Valley - Hill - Mountain

Then I can slowly introduce more words into the levels and you are welcome to show me any flaws in my logic.



Like the three levels of the corn, the oil, and the wine as an example.

And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel. Hosea 2:22


As the valleys are covered with corn being in the same measurement position:

The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing. Psalm 65:13

Valley - Hill - Mountain
Sea - River - Stream
Corn - Oil - Wine


As the rivers flow with oil being in the same measurement position:

Then will I make their waters deep, and cause their rivers to run like oil, saith the Lord God. Ezekiel 32:14

Valley - Hill - Mountain
Sea - River - Stream
Corn - Oil - Wine



And the mountains flow with wine being in the same measurement position:

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. Amos 9:13

Valley - Hill - Mountain
Sea - River - Stream
Corn - Oil - Wine


Corn, oil, and wine are a repeat of the three measurements.

There are many repeats.



Just as spear, sword and bow, is another repeat of the measurements.

And say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord God; Thus saith the Lord God to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places. Ezekiel 6:3


The sword of peace is the river of peace.

Level1 - Level2 - Level3
Valley - Hill - Mountain
Sea - River - Stream
Spear - Sword - Bow

To bring down the high, and to lift the low.

Maybe cut down on the stimulants? Just a thought.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

You certainly sound confused.

You are confused because you still dont get that I'm talking about symbols and not physical.

Still don't get what you are trying to say, but your claim is nonsensical. Geographical features do not necessarily have relative heights.
There are valleys in the Himalayas that are higher than mountains in the UK. There is no official distinction between hills and mountains. They are determined as much by features as by elevation. A hill on the Colorado plateau will be higher than most mountains in Belgium.
The Yarlung Tsangpo River is higher than every stream in Australia.

I know that KWED. Could also say on a point on the river that there are streams at lower elevation (further down river).

Like I've said many times in this thread - The words are symbols KWED. Not physical.

You still dont get it. And thats your problem.

That is why you dont know what I'm talking about.
Of course I would sound delusional if you still think I'm talking about physical things.

Still no idea what your point is. Perhaps try just explaining it in simple terms rather than some kind of "stream of consciousness" religious fervour?

The words valley, hill, and mountain are being used to represent different levels of height.

The valley symbol, the hill symbol, and the mountain symbol.
The sea symbol, the river symbol, and the stream symbol.

Please try to understand that.


It is a measurement of value like brass, silver, and gold.

The mountain is made of gold. As the hill is made of silver, and the valley is made of brass.
Symbolically speaking.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Sorry I see no logic, just bizarre subjective assumptions, and cryptic interpretations.

There are lots of crazy sounding verses. I'm trying to show they do in fact have meaning.

The verses are symbolic but not in a way that is open to interpretation.
They mean what they say symbolically. The words are true symbolically.

There are no physical miracles mentioned in the bible, there are no prophecies of future events mentioned in the bible.

Miracles and prophecies are not physical events.

It is just symbolic language that is being interpreted as being magic because its not understood.

The words are symbolic - Not physical.

 

[ppp]

Miracles and prophecies are not physical events.

How is somebody being healed of a disease not a physical event?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

How is somebody being healed of a disease not a physical event?

Like healing the lame.
Making the crooked straight.

Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked? Ecclesiastes 7:13


They do not walk straight on the path.

The legs of the lame are not equal: so is a parable in the mouth of fools. Proverbs 26:7




Or like healing the deaf.
Those that cant hear.


Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not: Jeremiah 5:21


And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear? 1 Samuel 15:14

Level1 - Level2 - Level3
Cattle - Goats - Sheep



When the blind lead the blind they all go off the path and fall into the ditch.

And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? Luke 6:39


Jesus healed the lame, the deaf, and the blind. Symbolically.

 

[ppp]

Like healing the lame.
Making the crooked straight.

Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked? Ecclesiastes 7:13


They do not walk straight on the path.

The legs of the lame are not equal: so is a parable in the mouth of fools. Proverbs 26:7




Or like healing the deaf.
Those that cant hear.


Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not: Jeremiah 5:21


And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear? 1 Samuel 15:14

Level1 - Level2 - Level3
Cattle - Goats - Sheep



When the blind lead the blind they all go off the path and fall into the ditch.

And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? Luke 6:39


Jesus healed the lame, the deaf, and the blind. Symbolically.

That's an interesting interpretation. Not persuasive, but interesting. And when I say "not persuasive" I mean that I see no reason to think that the authors meant those things in any way other than physical. If they are not supposed to be physical, then they are not in the least bit remarkable.

 

[Sheldon]

There are lots of crazy sounding verses. I'm trying to show they do in fact have meaning.

Well no offence, but if you could get to that part it would help hold my attention.

The verses are symbolic but not in a way that is open to interpretation. They mean what they say symbolically. The words are true symbolically.

Yes I believe I already explained your claims are subjective, and your interpretations beyond cryptic. have you anything approaching objective evidence, or even a cogent explanation of what you believe and why?

There are no physical miracles mentioned in the bible,

Of course there are, that's an absurdly false claim.

It is just symbolic language that is being interpreted as being magic because its not understood.

Well that's the very definition of magic, the power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.


I have no more idea now, than I did at the start, of what specifically you're claiming, or why you think you have anything approaching objective evidence for your claims?

 

[Sheldon]

Like healing the lame.
Making the crooked straight.

Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked? Ecclesiastes 7:13


They do not walk straight on the path.

The legs of the lame are not equal: so is a parable in the mouth of fools. Proverbs 26:7




Or like healing the deaf.
Those that cant hear.


Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not: Jeremiah 5:21


And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear? 1 Samuel 15:14

Level1 - Level2 - Level3
Cattle - Goats - Sheep



When the blind lead the blind they all go off the path and fall into the ditch.

And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? Luke 6:39


Jesus healed the lame, the deaf, and the blind. Symbolically.

So their physical pathologies were not healed in the biblical narratives, are you sure?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

That's an interesting interpretation. Not persuasive, but interesting. And when I say "not persuasive" I mean that I see no reason to think that the authors meant those things in any way other than physical. If they are not supposed to be physical, then they are not in the least bit remarkable.

The words are remarkable.

They say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" Say: "Allah hath certainly power to send down a sign: but most of them understand not. Quran 6:37



There were no physical signs/miracles done in the time of Jesus.

And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation. Mark 12:13


There are no physical signs/miracles done in the bible. Thats just misunderstanding.


Dont be lame.

And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. Hebrews 12:13

He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions. Psalm 107:20


They are healing words.

 

[ppp]

The words are remarkable.

You are merely arguing aesthetics at this point.

 

[Sheldon]

The words are remarkable.

They say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" Say: "Allah hath certainly power to send down a sign: but most of them understand not. Quran 6:37



There were no physical signs/miracles done in the time of Jesus.

And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation. Mark 12:13


There are no physical signs/miracles done in the bible. Thats just misunderstanding.


Dont be lame.

And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. Hebrews 12:13

He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions. Psalm 107:20


They are healing words.

You mean you subjectively find the words remarkable, I don't. They still seem like gibberish to me sorry.

 

[joelr]

jesus 'prince of peace ' ' attacked rabbis in temple with a whip made of chord. abrogated early peaceful verses with ' go buy swords kill my deniers ' crusaders inquistioneyrs conquistadors. kkk. took him up on it

Jesus is a mythical character in fiction. I agree, these violent actions help to demonstrate these are not divine beings. Just as the violence and condemnation against other religions and non-believers in the Quran help to show these are stories written by people. No divine messages from angels. Angels are fiction like warewolves and vampires.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

You are merely arguing aesthetics at this point.

What were you saying.

If they are not supposed to be physical, then they are not in the least bit remarkable.

Why do you think they have to be physical to be remarkable?



Heres the problem.

People take the words as literal and their only explanation is magic.

That is an atheist vs theist argument. Both sides are discussing magic.


The words are true. How is that possible. Magic. God can do anything.

The words are false. Its not possible. Magic is not real. God doesnt exist.


Consider if the words are heard as symbolic and the explanation for prophecies/miracles is the sign language. Then there is no magic involved.

We are discussing something totally different.

While people wonder why great signs and miracles do not ever happen to them personally.
And they wait for prophecies that will never happen in their lifetime.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Of course there are, that's an absurdly false claim.

And yet that is my claim.

There are no physical miracles mentioned in the bible.
As there are no physical prophecies mentioned in the bible.

That is sign language. Speaking the message.

 

[ppp]

Why do you think they have to be physical to be remarkable?

Leprosy is a physical disease. If healing the lepers does not take place as a physical event, then nothing has happened.

Consider if the words are heard as symbolic and the explanation for prophecies/miracles is the sign language. Then there is no magic involved.

The fact of the matter is that the writers believed in magic.

I am willing to consider it, but in order for me to think that the words were meant symbolically, I would need an evidentiary justification. The goal of making the words meaningful is not such a justification. If you are saying something beyond that, I am going to need you to place your focus there.

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
Of course there are, that's an absurdly false claim.

And yet that is my claim.

Which is absurdly false.

There are no physical miracles mentioned in the bible.

Lemons are bitter, since we seem now to be stating the obvious.

there are no physical prophecies mentioned in the bible.

That is sign language. Speaking the message.

'kay...

 

[KWED]

hadiths teach physical aspects of islam. how. when to pray. fast ramadan and go to haj. today families teach their kids these things and 99 percent of muslims today do not have books of hadiths at home

No idea what this has to do with my point.

You implied that Islam does not prescribe killing homosexuals because "It is not in the Quran". However, it is in the sunnah.
Are you saying that you were not aware of this, or that you were being deliberately misleading?

 

[KWED]

You are confused because you still dont get that I'm talking about symbols and not physical.
The words valley, hill, and mountain are being used to represent different levels of height.

You claimed they denote a specific hierarchy.
I showed that your hierarchy is nonsensical.

It is a measurement of value like brass, silver, and gold.
The mountain is made of gold. As the hill is made of silver, and the valley is made of brass.
Symbolically speaking.

I'm sure all this sounds perfectly reasonable inside your head. Unfortunately, something has been lost in translation.

 

[KWED]

There are lots of crazy sounding verses. I'm trying to show they do in fact have meaning.

By presenting "explanations" that are even more incoherent than the original?