Assalamualaikum (peace be upon you all)

[KT Shamim]

Alaikom Salaam.

I have been Sunni, Shia and am now simply sympathetic to Muslims. By my understanding, the Ahmadiyya community is the smallest in Islam. Welcome.

Sympathetic is great. A welcome virtue for those who disagree.

 

[KT Shamim]

So be it in my opinion, the world will live on after mankind has annhilated itself, good riddance. Mankind has only ever been a curse and a plague upon Earth.

I don't hate humanity, I wish it were different, but humans are really very deletrious as a species. They have ruined this planet. They have poisoned it, polluted it, they have killed off much of its life, and they keep on killing, with indifference, with impunity.

When the last human breathes its last breath, the natural world can begin it's recovery.

There is always hope.

My religion tells me that as long as sufficiently good people remain God will only annihilate the bad people. But you are correct in that the end of the world is, in fact, signified by the complete lack of good people.

Currently however goodness exists across all religious beliefs. Though some more than others.

 

[Sunstone]

The difference is the realization that others can be reasonable and still disagree. Don't try to change minds. Instead, present your *opinion*.

Following Poly's advice here will also lessen or eliminate any disappointment you would otherwise feel when folks refuse to convert to your cause -- as at least most folks will not.

 

[KT Shamim]

Following Poly's advice here will also lessen or eliminate any disappointment you would otherwise feel when folks refuse to convert to your cause -- as at least most folks will not.

It is always disappointing to not be able to come to an agreement. The more important the matter the greater the disappointment. But that is a sign of the degree of affection and sympathy two people have towards each other. It hurts but some hurts just have to be dealt with.

Simultaneously having great sympathy yet also upholding the freedom to disagree is an arduous task but essential. As a friend, sibling, child, or parent.

[Qur'an 2:257] "There should be no compulsion in religion. Surely, right has become distinct from wrong; ... "

yet at the same time

[Qur'an 18:7] "So haply thou wilt grieve thyself to death for sorrow after them if they believe not in this discourse."

 

[danieldemol]

Simultaneously having great sympathy yet also upholding the freedom to disagree is an arduous task but essential. As a friend, sibling, child, or parent.

[Qur'an 2:257] "There should be no compulsion in religion. Surely, right has become distinct from wrong; ... “

Agreed, which is precisely why we shouldn’t have blasphemy laws, as they can potentially suppress the freedom to disagree by labelling certain disagreements blasphemous and therefore subject to liability under the law of the land.

 

[KT Shamim]

Agreed, which is precisely why we shouldn’t have blasphemy laws, as they can potentially suppress the freedom to disagree by labelling certain disagreements blasphemous and therefore subject to liability under the law of the land.

Well pointed out.

In the true Islam, the original Islam of Prophet Muhammad (saw), the same true Islam that the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community seeks to re-establish:

[Qur'an 3:187] "... you shall surely hear many hurtful things from those who were given the Book before you and from those who set up equals to God. But if you show fortitude and act righteously, that indeed is a matter of strong determination."

The fact is that the punishment of blasphemy as implemented today is very far from the Islamic teachings as highlighted by the Holy Qur'an. The Qur'an says that in the face of blasphemy fortitude is a matter of strong determination and that patience is the way to go. But modern so-called scholars of Islam say that murder is the matter of strong determination.

For Muslims upholding freedom of religion which includes upholding people' right to free speech is essential. Certainly I believe the corporal punishment for blasphemy as death has nothing to do with Islam.

[Qur'an 6:69] "And when you see those who trifle with our signs then turn thou away from them until then engage in a discourse other than that and if Satan cause thee to forget then sit not, after recollection, with the unjust people."

No capital punishment is specified anywhere in the Qur'an. This is just made up by modern Muslim scholars to keep the masses in their control.

But at the end I would like to add that I differentiate between criticism and hate-speech but even in the case of hate speech capital punishment is in no way just. Punishment must be proportional to the crime. And criticism is more than welcome.

 

[danieldemol]

...
[Qur'an 3:187] "... you shall surely hear many hurtful things from those who were given the Book before you and from those who set up equals to God. But if you show fortitude and act righteously, that indeed is a matter of strong determination."

The fact is that the punishment of blasphemy as implemented today is very far from the Islamic teachings as highlighted by the Holy Qur'an. The Qur'an says that in the face of blasphemy fortitude is a matter of strong determination and that patience is the way to go. But modern so-called scholars of Islam say that murder is the matter of strong determination.

For Muslims upholding freedom of religion which includes upholding people' right to free speech is essential. Certainly I believe the corporal punishment for blasphemy as death has nothing to do with Islam...

Issuing people a fine for blasphemy is less harsh in degree than murder, but can still be used as a tool to bash minority opinion.
In my view it is better just to exercise patience when hearing an opinion we don’t like rather than to fine people.

 

[Frater Sisyphus]

In the name of Allah the Gracious Ever Merciful

I have a strong conviction about my religious beliefs and I'm here to bring a message of peace and a word of warning.

My strong convictions have been wrong before however and so I should in principle keep an open mind and be honest despite everything.

I am not responsible for conversions but I am responsible for delivering the message effectively.

Specifically belong to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community (www.alislam.org) and happy to participate in what I hope are a positive learning experience for us all.

jazakumullah (God bless you all) for this effort.

And peace out!

In the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful!

Welcome Shamim to the forum,
I'm part Muslim myself (Sufi), albeit Syncretic. Great to have others around here!
Make sure you check out the DIR


Cheers!

 

[KT Shamim]

Issuing people a fine for blasphemy is less harsh in degree than murder, but can still be used as a tool to bash minority opinion.
In my view it is better just to exercise patience when hearing an opinion we don’t like rather than to fine people.

Patience is the path that Muslims are told to exercise. In fact, Islam specifically encourages Muslims to adopt patience.
But in the interest of those belonging to other religions I believe in hate-speech laws. i.e. if Muslims claim for example that Muhammad (saw) was better than Moses (as) and this hurts Jewish feelings then the Muslims must stop and respect feelings.
Even in the developed world anti-semetism or what happens to Jews in WW2 is too sensitive a topic and qualifies as hate-speech . In fact, to an extent even legal action is permitted in such matters.
Just as movies are rated differently whether they are PG or PG-13 so in the same manner it is possible to rate speech or texts that are purely hate and that are merely criticism.

Of course, honesty is essential in order to prevent using laws as an excuse to silence minorities ... but then honesty is essential in all matters.

 

[KT Shamim]

In the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful!

Welcome Shamim to the forum,
I'm part Muslim myself (Sufi), albeit Syncretic. Great to have others around here!
Make sure you check out the DIR


Cheers!

Thank you, jazakAllah (God bless you), for your welcome.

What is DIR?

 

[Frater Sisyphus]

Thank you, jazakAllah (God bless you), for your welcome.

What is DIR?

Scroll down a little on the main forum page and you'll see "Discuss Individual Religions" subforum.
Here's a quick link to the Islam DIR: https://www.religiousforums.com/forums/islam-dir.11/

 

[Ellen Brown]

Well pointed out.

In the true Islam, the original Islam of Prophet Muhammad (saw), the same true Islam that the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community seeks to re-establish:

[Qur'an 3:187] "... you shall surely hear many hurtful things from those who were given the Book before you and from those who set up equals to God. But if you show fortitude and act righteously, that indeed is a matter of strong determination."

The fact is that the punishment of blasphemy as implemented today is very far from the Islamic teachings as highlighted by the Holy Qur'an. The Qur'an says that in the face of blasphemy fortitude is a matter of strong determination and that patience is the way to go. But modern so-called scholars of Islam say that murder is the matter of strong determination.

For Muslims upholding freedom of religion which includes upholding people' right to free speech is essential. Certainly I believe the corporal punishment for blasphemy as death has nothing to do with Islam.

[Qur'an 6:69] "And when you see those who trifle with our signs then turn thou away from them until then engage in a discourse other than that and if Satan cause thee to forget then sit not, after recollection, with the unjust people."

No capital punishment is specified anywhere in the Qur'an. This is just made up by modern Muslim scholars to keep the masses in their control.

But at the end I would like to add that I differentiate between criticism and hate-speech but even in the case of hate speech capital punishment is in no way just. Punishment must be proportional to the crime. And criticism is more than welcome.

I started out in a radical Sunni Masjid. There were several ways to lose one's head in that group.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Wa alikum as salaam, Yesua ehebek.