Assisted suicide.

[UnTheist]

This is primarily for the people who claim that assisted suicide is the equivalent of "playing God" and is therefore wrong. Isn't having hospitals playing God? We, as Humans, are keeping people alive against "nature's wishes," and yet they [who claim that assisted suicide is playing God] don't scream bloody murder over it and are thus being inconsistent in their argument. (I am talking about doctor-assisted suicide, BTW).

 

[Magic Man]

I agree. I don't like that argument either. I don't think assisted suicide is necessarily wrong, but only if done in very particular circumstances. It's kind of like the death penalty to me.

 

[logician]

There certainly are times when suicide is preferable to the pain of living, I see nothing wrong with assisted suicide in the right setting.

 

[the-flatlander]

There certainly are times when suicide is preferable to the pain of living, I see nothing wrong with assisted suicide in the right setting.

I agree. In certain circumstances it is kind and merciful. It is better than forcing someone to endure a hopeless, pain-filled miserable existence.

 

[UnTheist]

What about mental suffering? If mental pain can be as miserable as physical pain (I have no idea; I don't think they're comparable), and someone had a chronic mental or neurological issue affecting them, would you give him/her the same option?

 

[emiliano]

Assisted suicide to me is a strange way to show love for someone. Most people that do it claim that they do it out of love, but is it?

This is primarily for the people who claim that assisted suicide is the equivalent of "playing God" and is therefore wrong.

How so? As I understand these are people that quit fighting for their lives, but are enable to kill themselves, so the theory is that they turn to a loved one to do it. Where is the love in all of this? It is wrong to ask a loved one to kill you. and is wrong to kill a love one.

Isn't having hospitals playing God? We, as Humans, are keeping people alive against "nature's wishes," and yet they [who claim that assisted suicide is playing God] don't scream bloody murder over it and are thus being inconsistent in their argument.

And what is natures wishes. I say that it is natures wish that we die naturally. Asking a loved one to do it is not loving, quitting the fight cowardice. By the way if pain is the reason. You should know that increasing the dosage of pain killer reaches a point where you die, doctor have been doing this for years, it works but the theatrical are absent in these cases, a person can be put into a coma till the end arrives, this is after all treatments are withdrawn and all hopes gone.

 

[UnTheist]

Assisted suicide to me is a strange way to show love for someone. Most people that do it claim that they do it out of love, but is it?

Sure, if you want to end the person's suffering. It's that simple, really.

But I may have failed to mention that...

How so? As I understand these are people that quit fighting for their lives, but are enable to kill themselves, so the theory is that they turn to a loved one to do it. Where is the love in all of this?

...I was mainly talking about doctor-assisted suicide.

 

[tennis_hero]

comparing assisted suicide to hospitals?

forgive my naivety on the issue, but i thought hospitals were meant to save lives

 

[UnTheist]

I compared the two because they are both deciding the fate of a Human's life.

 

[tennis_hero]

I compared the two because they are both deciding the fate of a Human's life.

how many sick people go to a hospital in hopes of dying?

the sad thing is if Richard Dawkins compared assisted suicide to hospital treatment, he'd have 10000 morons clap for him

Richard Dawkins compared catholicism to child abuse

the same Richard Dawkins who has had more wives then children

oh the atheist hypocrisy

 

[UnTheist]

how many sick people go to a hospital in hopes of dying?

the sad thing is if Richard Dawkins compared assisted suicide to hospital treatment, he'd have 10000 morons clap for him

Richard Dawkins compared catholicism to child abuse

the same Richard Dawkins who has had more wives then children

oh the atheist hypocrisy

Come back when you can have a serious discussion.

 

[the-flatlander]

What about mental suffering? If mental pain can be as miserable as physical pain (I have no idea; I don't think they're comparable), and someone had a chronic mental or neurological issue affecting them, would you give him/her the same option?

Yes. My position is: Whether physical or mental, if life becomes unbearable, and if there is truly no possibility of relief through medications, therapy etcetera, one is better dead.

Here in Oregon we have legalized physician assisted suicide under the following conditions:

“The law states that, in order to participate, a patient must be: 1) 18 years of age or older, 2) a resident of Oregon, 3) capable of making and communicating health care decisions for him/herself, and 4) diagnosed with a terminal illness that will lead to death within six (6) months. It is up to the attending physician to determine whether these criteria have been met.”

I believe there is a point where pain and misery become unbearable for any human; it’s just a matter of experiencing a severe enough degree of pain for a long enough time. When that point is reached anyone will want to die…..and be better dead.

 

[zenzero]

Friend UnTheist,

The word is: Euthanasia [assisted suicide]

Much debated subject.
Personally have no issues as according to karma cannot escape the PAIN in this life or next, have to face the same.

Love & rgds

 

[MoonWater]

how many sick people go to a hospital in hopes of dying?

the sad thing is if Richard Dawkins compared assisted suicide to hospital treatment, he'd have 10000 morons clap for him

Richard Dawkins compared catholicism to child abuse

the same Richard Dawkins who has had more wives then children

oh the atheist hypocrisy

That's not what he meant. The idea was that if assisted suicide could be considered "playing God" because you're making the decision as to whether or not a person lives or dies then could not the same be said of hospitals as they, in a way, at least indirectly, decide if a person lives or dies by fighting to save the life of said person from whatever disease or injury afflicted them.

Basically it's the idea that only god has the authority to take life and to give life so if one takes a life they are playing god and if a person is dying it could be seen as god is taking that life and if someone interferes with that(something hospitals do on a regular basis) then it could be construed as them trying to play god as well.

Coincidentally this is why there a few Christians and people of other faiths who forgo medical care because they don't want to interfere with god's plans...... either that or because it would show a lack of faith in god.... actually I think it's a combination of the two. Anyway, I digress.... does that help clear up some of your confusion?

 

[emiliano]

Sure, if you want to end the person's suffering. It's that simple, really.

But I may have failed to mention that...

...I was mainly talking about doctor-assisted suicide.

That's the thing it is my observation that in most cases is the others that can’t take the hopelessness of the situation, they feed their anxieties and depression on the dying to the point that they request their doctor to end it, and the decision is more to end their suffering not the dying person that would be assisted to die pain free anyway. Doctor have been doing this for years, so there is no need to debate this, they do it because it is their duty to alleviate pain, this type of suicides are not different than that of healthy but depressed and hopeless people, the desire to ended got to do with depression and anxiety more than with anything else, that why we have palliative care to help the dying. So if you are talking about doctor’s assisted suicide is on already and nobody is accusing them of anything, and they don‘t need to be told, they know how to managed pain, depression and anxiety.

 

[emiliano]

What about mental suffering? If mental pain can be as miserable as physical pain (I have no idea; I don't think they're comparable), and someone had a chronic mental or neurological issue affecting them, would you give him/her the same option?

This is applicable to suicide ideations that is always due to depression and perceived hopelessness, pain can be managed and people can be treated for depression and anxiety, if this is caused by a terminal illness, death will come and the end can be reached pain free. Mental illness are also managed and are not terminal illness.

 

[crystalonyx]

There are certainly situations where the pain of life can become unbearable, the idea that doctors can alleviate all suffering is simply BS.

 

[emiliano]

There are certainly situations where the pain of life can become unbearable, the idea that doctors can alleviate all suffering is simply BS.

What weights the most in the mind of those making such decisions is the inevitable terminality of the illness, if it going to end in death no matter what treatment is used, the patient can be assisted till the end comes, this can include inducing a state coma till the persons dies, if there is a possibility of recovery that can also help, these ideations generally are cause by depression and that is what the medical officer must consider, when this is thought as solution for mental torment, then people that are left with quadriplegia as the result of trauma will be eligible for assisted suicide. The problem is who do we assign to carried it out? What training should these people have?

 

[England my lionheart]

This is primarily for the people who claim that assisted suicide is the equivalent of "playing God" and is therefore wrong. Isn't having hospitals playing God? We, as Humans, are keeping people alive against "nature's wishes," and yet they [who claim that assisted suicide is playing God] don't scream bloody murder over it and are thus being inconsistent in their argument. (I am talking about doctor-assisted suicide, BTW).

From my own experience watching my Mother die i completely agree with you,my Mother was given a choice,you can recieve treatment that may prolong your life for maybe a year which is going to include pain and sickness or you can choose a prolonged death.
IMO if my Mother had the choice of assisted suicide she would have gladly taken it,instead her death ,which included a lot of pain and took a month to happen is just unnecessary suffering.

 

[UnTheist]

This is applicable to suicide ideations that is always due to depression and perceived hopelessness, pain can be managed and people can be treated for depression and anxiety

But this doesn't work for everybody.

if this is caused by a terminal illness, death will come and the end can be reached pain free.

Well, that doesn't accomplish anything; it only makes the person suffer longer with no satisfaction of living.

Mental illness are also managed and are not terminal illness.

But you just said that it wouldn't matter if it was a terminal illness.