Assuming the garden of Eden is true

[Segev Moran]

And i mean it even if it only a symbolism of the creation of man and not an actual story...

Endless of times i hear this story of the Tree of Knowledge Good and bad is GODs gift to humans.. because GOD gave us the wisdom and ability to learn ...
yet, the story itself , as truth or a symbolism, describes that GOD has made the garden of Eden, and made it full of trees with the exception of one special tree.. yet this tree unlike the others, was forbidden to be fed upon...

So basically GOD Didn't want humans to have the "Moral" and understanding of what is right and what is wrong...

Not only that.. GOD was so envious of his precious knowledge, it actually threatened Adam and Eve that if they will eat from this tree.. they will die("End of life") [that was a little developers joke here ]

after that, when Adam and Eve ate from the tree.. GOD was so furious that they ate it.. that it actually gave them the horrible punishment we call life... and not only that, it will forever remain in the human species..

Where in all that story.. have you seen the word "Gift" or "Gave us"?
What this story actually tells, is that GOD didn't want us to be able to understand whats good and whats bad but we took it anyways, assuming we don't know it bad to take it...
to me it sounds, quite the opposite of "gift of GOD"...

 

[savagewind]

The way I see it is it is like telling a very young child about SEX. The time was not right for Adam to have the knowledge of God and it was Eve who gave it to him and not God.

 

[Aquitaine]

The way I see it is it is like telling a very young child about SEX. The time was not right for Adam to have the knowledge of God and it was Eve who gave it to him and not God.

Then why not just remove the tree until they were both old enough?
Why condemn humanity for something so trivial?

 

[Tumah]

And i mean it even if it only a symbolism of the creation of man and not an actual story...

Endless of times i hear this story of the Tree of Knowledge Good and bad is GODs gift to humans.. because GOD gave us the wisdom and ability to learn ...
yet, the story itself , as truth or a symbolism, describes that GOD has made the garden of Eden, and made it full of trees with the exception of one special tree.. yet this tree unlike the others, was forbidden to be fed upon...

So basically GOD Didn't want humans to have the "Moral" and understanding of what is right and what is wrong...

Not only that.. GOD was so envious of his precious knowledge, it actually threatened Adam and Eve that if they will eat from this tree.. they will die("End of life") [that was a little developers joke here ]

after that, when Adam and Eve ate from the tree.. GOD was so furious that they ate it.. that it actually gave them the horrible punishment we call life... and not only that, it will forever remain in the human species..

Where in all that story.. have you seen the word "Gift" or "Gave us"?
What this story actually tells, is that GOD didn't want us to be able to understand whats good and whats bad but we took it anyways, assuming we don't know it bad to take it...
to me it sounds, quite the opposite of "gift of GOD"...

I've never heard anyone call it a gift. And in general, the problem wasn't to know good and evil, but to 'know' in the Biblical sense (Gen.4:1). That the evil should become an intimate part of man, rather than remain external. Not eating from it, was meant to be a test like all the others. At the conclusion of the Sabbath Adam was meant to eat from it. We also circumcise only after the baby has gone through a Sabbath.

 

[savagewind]

Then why not just remove the tree until they were both old enough?

I think the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad are the same tree.

 

[savagewind]

I tend to believe that the shattering instrument in the hands of the angels is the same for marking and for killing like the tree is the same for life or for misleading.

Ezekiel 9

 

[Segev Moran]

The way I see it is it is like telling a very young child about SEX. The time was not right for Adam to have the knowledge of God and it was Eve who gave it to him and not God.

Thus she was punished to forever serve the man.. hmmm.. how comfortable...

 

[savagewind]

Thus she was punished to forever serve the man.. hmmm.. how comfortable...

I serve my man. It is not punishment.

 

[BSM1]

And i mean it even if it only a symbolism of the creation of man and not an actual story...

Endless of times i hear this story of the Tree of Knowledge Good and bad is GODs gift to humans.. because GOD gave us the wisdom and ability to learn ...
yet, the story itself , as truth or a symbolism, describes that GOD has made the garden of Eden, and made it full of trees with the exception of one special tree.. yet this tree unlike the others, was forbidden to be fed upon...

So basically GOD Didn't want humans to have the "Moral" and understanding of what is right and what is wrong...

Not only that.. GOD was so envious of his precious knowledge, it actually threatened Adam and Eve that if they will eat from this tree.. they will die("End of life") [that was a little developers joke here ]

after that, when Adam and Eve ate from the tree.. GOD was so furious that they ate it.. that it actually gave them the horrible punishment we call life... and not only that, it will forever remain in the human species..

Where in all that story.. have you seen the word "Gift" or "Gave us"?
What this story actually tells, is that GOD didn't want us to be able to understand whats good and whats bad but we took it anyways, assuming we don't know it bad to take it...
to me it sounds, quite the opposite of "gift of GOD"...

This is my personal take on the T of K. It's title was, "The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil". At first blush it would seem that this means the difference between good and evil. I don't see it that way; it's a trick question. Anything created by a Divine Creator is neither good nor evil, it's neutral (re: Isa. 45-7). Good and evil are totally man-made concepts; e.i. man decides what is good and what is evil. When A & E discovered this by partaking of the Tree, they lost their innocence. They could no longer exist in a child-like and non-judgemental environment. Now they had to think about their actions and decide whether these actions met some kind of standard. They also were introduced to shame, guilt, remorse, embarrassment, et al, by having this knowledge. Their lives by necessity change drastically and they were no longer "children". I had always thought the Good-Evil line left much to be desired, so this is what I came up with.

 

[Segev Moran]

And in general, the problem wasn't to know good and evil, but to 'know' in the Biblical sense

You mean sexual intercourse?
Hows that got anything to do with the story?
its
"עץ הדעת טוב ורע"
which means the tree of knowledge of good and bad...

Not eating from it, was meant to be a test like all the others.

Why would GOD need to test the infant human???

At the conclusion of the Sabbath Adam was meant to eat from it.

I Would love to hear where does it say so..

 

[Segev Moran]

This is my personal take on the T of K. It's title was, "The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil". At first blush it would seem that this means the difference between good and evil. I don't see it that way; it's a trick question. Anything created by a Divine Creator is neither good nor evil, it's neutral (re: Isa. 45-7). Good and evil are totally man-made concepts; e.i. man decides what is good and what is evil. When A & E discovered this by partaking of the Tree, they lost their innocence. They could no longer exist in a child-like and non-judgemental environment. Now they had to think about their actions and decide whether these actions met some kind of standard. They also were introduced to shame, guilt, remorse, embarrassment, et al, by having this knowledge. Their lives by necessity change drastically and they were no longer "children". I had always thought the Good-Evil line left much to be desired, so this is what I came up with.

You just claimed against the number one theist argument

 

[Segev Moran]

I serve my man. It is not punishment.

Then you don't really serve him, you treat him with respect and love (i hope) as any human should be treated..
But to serve a man...
in the story of Eden, is in the sense of being obligated to serve your man...
I really wonder how many woman wrote the bible...

 

[savagewind]

Then you don't really serve him, you treat him with respect and love (i hope) as any human should be treated..
But to serve a man...
in the story of Eden, is in the sense of being obligated to serve your man...
I really wonder how many woman wrote the bible...

I respect and love him but I am also obligated to serve him. He works and I cook. I am happy I like to cook.

 

[Tumah]

You mean sexual intercourse?
Hows that got anything to do with the story?
its
"עץ הדעת טוב ורע"
which means the tree of knowledge of good and bad...

As in
"והאדם ידע את חוה". Its the tree of intimate joining of good and bad. It has to do with the story, because according to Jewish theology, eating from the tree caused evil to become mixed into the man and the world. It joined good and bad.

Why would GOD need to test the infant human???

Is that a general question about why G-d tests people as is found throughout Tanach, or is that specifically here that you're asking.

I Would love to hear where does it say so..

Go and learn. There's plenty more.

 

[Skwim]

And i mean it even if it only a symbolism of the creation of man and not an actual story...

Endless of times i hear this story of the Tree of Knowledge Good and bad is GODs gift to humans.. because GOD gave us the wisdom and ability to learn ...
yet, the story itself , as truth or a symbolism, describes that GOD has made the garden of Eden, and made it full of trees with the exception of one special tree.. yet this tree unlike the others, was forbidden to be fed upon...

So basically GOD Didn't want humans to have the "Moral" and understanding of what is right and what is wrong...

Not only that.. GOD was so envious of his precious knowledge, it actually threatened Adam and Eve that if they will eat from this tree.. they will die("End of life") [that was a little developers joke here ]

after that, when Adam and Eve ate from the tree.. GOD was so furious that they ate it.. that it actually gave them the horrible punishment we call life... and not only that, it will forever remain in the human species..

Where in all that story.. have you seen the word "Gift" or "Gave us"?
What this story actually tells, is that GOD didn't want us to be able to understand whats good and whats bad but we took it anyways, assuming we don't know it bad to take it...
to me it sounds, quite the opposite of "gift of GOD"...

And god, being the omniscient creature Christians (and Jews?) claim him to be, knew this would be the outcome all along. This makes his questioning in the Garden pretty questionable itself.

Genesis 3 (NIV)
9 And Jehovah God called unto the man, and said unto him, Where art thou?

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked?

Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

13 And Jehovah God said unto the woman, What is this thou hast done?
​

Some might say he asked these question to see if A&E would admit their guilt, but again, being omniscient he knew they would.

So, god created A&E knowing full well they would disobey him and plague all of humanity that followed with the outcome of their little transgression. Human suffering and the good possibility of spending eternity in hell was all part of his plan even before he created Earth. Nice guy.

Here' another one that precedes his questioning.

Genesis 3:8
Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
​

If god could have been heard walking around he must have taken on some kind of physical form with feet. Fine, but why? Not that anyone here is expected to know the answer ("God's ways are inscrutable after all"), but one would expect far more coherency from a writer as great as god. Thing is, I've read far more logical story lines from mere mortals.


.
.

 

[BSM1]

You just claimed against the number one theist argument

Educate me, please.

 

[Thief]

And i mean it even if it only a symbolism of the creation of man and not an actual story...

Endless of times i hear this story of the Tree of Knowledge Good and bad is GODs gift to humans.. because GOD gave us the wisdom and ability to learn ...
yet, the story itself , as truth or a symbolism, describes that GOD has made the garden of Eden, and made it full of trees with the exception of one special tree.. yet this tree unlike the others, was forbidden to be fed upon...

So basically GOD Didn't want humans to have the "Moral" and understanding of what is right and what is wrong...

Not only that.. GOD was so envious of his precious knowledge, it actually threatened Adam and Eve that if they will eat from this tree.. they will die("End of life") [that was a little developers joke here ]

after that, when Adam and Eve ate from the tree.. GOD was so furious that they ate it.. that it actually gave them the horrible punishment we call life... and not only that, it will forever remain in the human species..

Where in all that story.. have you seen the word "Gift" or "Gave us"?
What this story actually tells, is that GOD didn't want us to be able to understand whats good and whats bad but we took it anyways, assuming we don't know it bad to take it...
to me it sounds, quite the opposite of "gift of GOD"...

many people call the event a test.....and Man failed....and that is why we die

I don't read it that way.
the alteration performed was intended to change the course of Man.....
his body and his spirit

the tree of knowledge was a test
to be sure the alteration had taken hold
was Man curious to know?.....even if death is consequence

yes

Man IS that creature ...wanting to know....
and will risk death in the venture of discovery

THAT quality is what makes it possible for Man to survive his last breath

Man has indeed passed the test

 

[Segev Moran]

Then why not just remove the tree until they were both old enough?
Why condemn humanity for something so trivial?

I Agree...
So if you don't think your child is ready for sex, you won't go on and place two people having sex in the middle of the room right?

 

[Segev Moran]

I respect and love him but I am also obligated to serve him. He works and I cook. I am happy I like to cook.

Okey, I see the confusion...
When i said serve i didn't mean as in serve food...
I meant as in to be under the control of another person...
It says:
וְאֶל-אִישֵׁךְ, תְּשׁוּקָתֵךְ, וְהוּא, יִמְשָׁל-בָּךְ
which means in free translation:
And to your man you'll desire and he will rule you...

יִמְשָׁל
which derives from the word
מושל
which means govern or rule...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If it's true, I see it as no different than cooking a steak, putting it on the floor in a room, putting a dog in the room with the steak, telling the dog to not eat the steak, and closing the door to leave the two alone, and then punishing the dog for eating the steak even though you knew it was going to happen.