AT CHRISTMAS, who do we celebrate?..., to Claus ("the elf dressed in red), or to the Baby Jesus?...

[Muffled]

Yep.

Back then, many customs and holidays fell on the same day (such as 12-25) because of the solstice. Why break a system of feasting and festivities that was already in place? Just rename it; so much easier.

I believe that is mere speculation without any valid foundation.

 

[Muffled]

I don't celebrate anyone. I celebrate being together with family.

I believe God is not obligated to keep you with your family. If it is so it is by His grace.

 

[oldbadger]

AT CHRISTMAS, who do we celebrate?..., to superman, to extraterrestrials, to Claus ("the elf dressed in red"), to Harry Potter, or to the Baby Jesus?

Neither my wife nor I are Christians, and we celebrate a festival much older than Christianity which falls on the same day, because Christians reversed their celebration into that same date.
You can celebrate Christmas, and we'll celebrate 'The Rising of the Sun' which is even mentioned in one of our Carols.

 

[oldbadger]

I believe that is mere speculation without any valid foundation.

Don't tell that to a Druid!

 

[Nakosis]

AT CHRISTMAS, who do we celebrate?..., to superman, to extraterrestrials, to Claus ("the elf dressed in red"), to Harry Potter, or to the Baby Jesus?

The Christians, somehow, always remembered the love of God and that wonder that made when he became man and was born in Bethlehem, of Mary, the Virgin.

The holiday of Christmas to remember that fact of the Gospel would happen to have a day to the year since the Christians in the Average Age began to construct nativity scenes to remember the day of Christmas. It is believed that were Saint Francisco and his friends who made the first nativity scenes. They wanted to remember each year the birth of Our Savior.

But in the last century (twentieth century), dreamy men, with very little respect for the Gospel, invented another "savior": an "alien god" from other planets called Superman.

Since then, the fantasy of the aliens has developed in such a way that even on Christmas days they don't stop putting movies and selling books of Superman and of aliens. In these stories, hardly there is any sign of Christianity in its fantastic scenes ...

AT CHRISTMAS, who do we expect ... to Claus ("the elf dressed in red"), or to the Baby Jesus?...

Also, in the first decades of the twentieth century, another fantastic story character would emerge: "a magical god", called "Claus" ("the elf dressed in red"), who flies across the sky with sleds and reindeer and brings toys for the children on Christmas Day.

This "god" from the fantastic world inhabited by gnomes, fairies and dwarfs of the forest, seems the only savior of the world at Christmas time. In the scenes of his books and films hardly any signs of Jesus Christ or of Christianity are seen. It is as if someone had invented this fantastic character to make that the children forget the Gospel of Jesus Christ and turn their attention to the tales of men.

It is true that in the first centuries of Christianity there was a missionary who dedicated himself to bringing food and toys to the poor children of the villages he passed through. His name was Nicolás de Bari. He had inherited a great fortune from his parents, and distributed it all among the poor.

Some want to see Claus reflected in that Christian character, but the truth is that St. Nicholas was a Christian, and his story does not speak of magic, gnomes, forest dwarfs or fairies, or any fantasy; It only tells us of his love for Jesus Christ.

The character "Claus" (the elf dressed in red), instead, presents and promotes fantasy..., and in the tales written about him, the story of Jesus Christ and the Christians does not appear..., and if it appears, it is very covertly. It is as if they want to make the world see that the teaching of love and peace does not come from the Gospel, but from the mysterious and magical world of the gnomes, the fairies and the dwarfs of the forest.

AT CHRISTMAS, who do we expect ..., to Harry Potter or the Baby Jesus?...

And what about Harry Potter, if almost everyone knows the tale?... This tale of magic and fantasy seems to also find a place on Christmas days to promote magic and fantasy and do that children forget the true meaning of Christmas.

All these tales, although they seem harmless fantasies, as some affirm, however to all these tales unites them to them a single purpose: to ignore completely Jesus Christ and all signal of the Christianity.

This world of fantasies fights against the idea that God became man, and was called Jesus Christ, and also against the idea that there was a Christian culture that existed at some time in our history.

If this were to continue in this way, according to the purpose of many men would disappear Christianity, the Gospel, and all sign of Christian culture, and the world would be completely invaded by the tales of the antichrist.; Of course, tales that never remember that there are poor people on earth and that God ordered to distribute all the goods among them.

This is one of the things preached by the Gospel: to distribute the goods among the poor... Will not be this the reason why many men full of greed want to destroy the memory of the Gospel?...

I think that this subject in these days is a very important topic for changing impressions among Christians and examining it.

I just celebrate family. Kids like the lights and presents. Christmas movies, Christmas music.

Acquaintances, maybe your not the best of friends with, give a little gift, wish them happy holidays to show there's good will towards all folks despite any disputes in the past year.

 

[DennisTate]

Yep.

Back then, many customs and holidays fell on the same day (such as 12-25) because of the solstice. Why break a system of feasting and festivities that was already in place? Just rename it; so much easier.

Exactly..........

 

[Jesster]

I celebrate the end of Christmas. Peace returns once more.

 

[Porque77]

I celebrate the end of Christmas. Peace returns once more.

You must not say that. It is very beautiful to celebrate Christmas, the birth of Jesus, the coming of Jesus in the world, and his teaching of the Gospel.

 

[Porque77]

Many say that celebrating Christmas is pagan. But that's not true.

Celebrating the birth of Jesus is not pagan. To celebrate the birth of Jesus is to express the joy that Jesus came into the world to give his life for all his children and to show us his love and teach us his merciful commandments.

We must not forget that the birth of Jesus was a great joy for the shepherds, for the angels and for the people who awaited his birth. And for them it was cause for celebration.

 

[Shiranui117]

On the other hand:
Most biblical scholars and preachers readily admit that they know Christ was not born on December 25th. However, they claim that this day is as good as any other to celebrate the birth of Jesus, despite the fact that it was originally a pagan celebration called Saturnalia which commemorated the birth of the sun god.
Jesus Christ Birthday - Here a little, there a little - Holy Days

Wrong. Saturnalia was originally celebrated on December 17th and extended to the 23rd of December--AKA not December 25th. Originally, His birth was celebrated on the same day as His baptism, which was celebrated either on December 25th or January 6th, depending on what region you were from.
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/roadsfromemmaus/2018/12/05/no-christmas-is-not-pagan-just-stop/
Saturnalia - Wikipedia
epiphany

I could post pro'ly couple dozen web sites giving different dates for Jesus'
birth.
That's been done here ad nauseam so I won't bother.
So why celebrate Jesus' birth anyway.
The ancient Jews NEVER celebrated a b-day.
"Did ancient Jews celebrate birthdays?"
No. The only birthday celebration recorded in the Bible is that of Pharaoh in Genesis (40:20): And it came to pass the third day, which was Pharaoh's birthday, that he made a feast unto all his servants. According to tradition, it was an idolatrous event.
Even a couple of centuries ago, birthday celebrations were not a widespread Jewiah practice.

From: Did Jews celebrate birthdays in ancient times

In the face of that bit of info does it matter when Jesus was born?
Birthdays are "an idolatrous event" according to sources so we heap
an idolatrous event upon our Savior?
Don't make much sense to me folks.

Nice to know that once the pagans get a hold of something, it can never ever be baptized and used for God's purposes. So I guess that means sacrifices, prayer, worship and written scriptures are all pagan. It's a good thing Christianity isn't about transforming the world and humankind and sanctifying it to God--oh wait, that's right, it is.

 

[Porque77]

On the other hand:
Most biblical scholars and preachers readily admit that they know Christ was not born on December 25th. However, they claim that this day is as good as any other to celebrate the birth of Jesus, despite the fact that it was originally a pagan celebration called Saturnalia which commemorated the birth of the sun god.......

Wrong. Saturnalia was originally celebrated on December 17th and extended to the 23rd of December--AKA not December 25th......

In these last times a lot is being fought against the date of the Birth of Jesus Christ, saying that on that date pagan celebrations were held. Propagating these things, many want to forget the Baby Jesus and Christmas.

But the truth is that as for December 25, there are testimonies from Christians of the first centuries who tell us that Jesus Christ was born on December 25:

Are many the tales of magic and fantasy that are propagated on these dates of Christmas, and to top it all, many who call themselves Christians propagate the belief that the birth of the Child Jesus should not be celebrated at Christmas date, since they say that he was not born in this date. It is seen that they ignore the testimonies of the first centuries that exist and that they say that Jesus was born the 25 of December.

CHRISTMAS - December 25 - TELESFORO and SEXTO JULIO AFRICANO

It is not true what many say that Christians do not know when Christmas was celebrated, because there are testimonies of the first Christians who give us news of it, because there are documents of the first Christians (125 AD) that establish Christmas Day on the 25th of December ...

TELESEFORO

The old man Telesforo of the Christian Church of the second century, left established the Christmas celebrations celebrated by the first Christians. And this is preserved in his writings. And this Christian (TELESFORO) from the beginning of the second century (AD 125) reminds us that on December 25th, Christians celebrated the Christmas of Jesus Christ.

Telesforo was of the first Christians, and the only thing they preached was the Gospel. And this Christian lived long before the religion of the Roman emperors was founded in Rome: The Catholic religion was founded by the emperor Constantine and the bishops subordinated to him. And this happened in the fourth century. Old man Telesforo lived long before emperor Constantine imposed his religion of the empire.

This is the true story of christianity and Christmas..., christianity that was greatly persecuted by the empires of terror imposed on the world after the apostles and early Christians. Telesforo was sentenced to death by the emperors of Rome...

SEXTO JULIO AFRICANO

On the date of Christmas on December 25, not only do we have the testimony of Telesforo, since there is also the testimony of the historian Sexto Julio Africano (born 160), who in his book "Cronografías" (consisting of five books and which was finished in 221), said that the Annunciation of the Angel to Mary on the Conception of Jesus, was on March 25.

According to the date given by Sexto Julio of the Conception of Jesus (March 25), and counting nine months of pregnancy, gives us the result that December 25 corresponded to the Birth of Jesus.

So YES we have historical testimonies about the date of December 25 as the day of the Birth of Jesus.

I could post pro'ly couple dozen web sites giving different dates for Jesus'
birth.
That's been done here ad nauseam so I won't bother.
So why celebrate Jesus' birth anyway.
The ancient Jews NEVER celebrated a b-day.

For Christmas, we, the Christians who love Jesus Christ and his merciful teachings celebrate that Jesus was born and came into the world to give his life for all his children and teach us the precious teaching of the Gospel, which teaches us to be merciful and practice the charity with all men.

Celebrating Christmas is our joy and we love this beautiful celebration.

 

[Deeje]

Is this an annual visit to resurrect an old thread?

Many say that celebrating Christmas is pagan. But that's not true.

I'm afraid it is...pagan as to the date and the customs. You might be surprised to know that Jesus' birthday was not celebrated by Jesus or his family or any other Jew. At that time they did not celebrate anyone's birthday because of its pagan roots.

Astrologers used birthdates to cast horoscopes and they celebrated birthdays with a cake and lit tapers to keep away the evil spirits. The wishes made were also to protect the child from evil... read Deuteronomy 18:9-12 and see that all practices involving spiritism were detestable to God and forbidden to his people.

Celebrating the birth of Jesus is not pagan. To celebrate the birth of Jesus is to express the joy that Jesus came into the world to give his life for all his children and to show us his love and teach us his merciful commandments.

Show us a command from God to celebrate Jesus' birth. Then show us the date in the Bible. I can show you the command to commemorate his death and the exact date on which to do it. (It doesn't always fall on a Friday, like any other anniversary)

If it was so important, why is the date missing.....do you know which god had a birthday on December 25th? It wasn't Jesus.

We must not forget that the birth of Jesus was a great joy for the shepherds, for the angels and for the people who awaited his birth. And for them it was cause for celebration.

The shepherds did not hold an annual festival to celebrate Jesus' birth....it was a one off occasion.

The "wise men" were actually pagan astrologers who were used by the devil to try and get Jesus killed before he could become the Messiah. It doesn't mention how many there were. It doesn't say that they were ever at the stable either. Read Matthew ch 2.

The star that they followed led them to a murderous King who, because he was presented with a rival "king of the Jews", he then had all the infants two years of age and under put to death. The star was not sent by God, but adorns the pagan Christmas trees in people's homes.

You really should do some thorough research. Just because it's all pretty doesn't mean it's acceptable to God. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18) We are not to mix pagan worship with true worship.

 

[Porque77]

I'm afraid it is...pagan as to the date and the customs. You might be surprised to know that Jesus' birthday was not celebrated by Jesus or his family or any other Jew.

The birth of Jesus was celebrated by his mother, by the shepherds, by the angels and by all those who waited for him with much love.

 

[TheresOnlyNow]

Christmas is a time to celebrate family, both spiritual and physical. That's what love's all about, isn't it?

That should be 365 days a year shouldn't it?

To the question itself, the Bible doesn't state Jesus was born December 25. Some critics say that due to the shepherds being described as tending flocks in their fields at the time of Christ's birth that it would not be winter, or December , then.

Really, as I made my way through insane crowds and nutso traffic this last week and even this evening, I'd say what's being celebrated is materialism.
Watch those news programs showing people getting stomped to death. Because some retailer opened their store doors at midnight on Thanksgiving and offering as much as 80% off big ticket items.

Imagine! Wow dad I can't believe you got me this 72 inch HD TV!
Why yes son, it only cost a woman her life when we all walked on top of her to get to the electronics section.
Merry Christmas.

 

[TheresOnlyNow]

Is this an annual visit to resurrect an old thread?



I'm afraid it is...pagan as to the date and the customs. You might be surprised to know that Jesus' birthday was not celebrated by Jesus or his family or any other Jew. At that time they did not celebrate anyone's birthday because of its pagan roots.

Astrologers used birthdates to cast horoscopes and they celebrated birthdays with a cake and lit tapers to keep away the evil spirits. The wishes made were also to protect the child from evil... read Deuteronomy 18:9-12 and see that all practices involving spiritism were detestable to God and forbidden to his people.



Show us a command from God to celebrate Jesus' birth. Then show us the date in the Bible. I can show you the command to commemorate his death and the exact date on which to do it. (It doesn't always fall on a Friday, like any other anniversary)

If it was so important, why is the date missing.....do you know which god had a birthday on December 25th? It wasn't Jesus.



The shepherds did not hold an annual festival to celebrate Jesus' birth....it was a one off occasion.

The "wise men" were actually pagan astrologers who were used by the devil to try and get Jesus killed before he could become the Messiah. It doesn't mention how many there were. It doesn't say that they were ever at the stable either. Read Matthew ch 2.

The star that they followed led them to a murderous King who, because he was presented with a rival "king of the Jews", he then had all the infants two years of age and under put to death. The star was not sent by God, but adorns the pagan Christmas trees in people's homes.

You really should do some thorough research. Just because it's all pretty doesn't mean it's acceptable to God. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18) We are not to mix pagan worship with true worship.

Actually as to the pagan date of winter solstice, that would fall from December 21 to 23rd.

 

[Deeje]

The birth of Jesus was celebrated by his mother, by the shepherds, by the angels and by all those who waited for him with much love.

I didn't say his birth....I said his birthday.....that is what the ancient Jews did not celebrate. The birth of a child is always a joyous occasion for most people, but in Israel they were seen as a blessing from God. This baby was a special blessing. But no one in Israel would have celebrated his birthday....not even his mother. If it was an important date, it would be recorded.....no one knows the date of Jesus' birth. Some guess it was around October.

It was against God's law to imitate the ways, beliefs and customs of the Canaanite inhabitants of the Promised Land. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12) Birthdays were associated with astrology as horoscopes were cast using a child's birthdate. The customs are even the same....the cake with the lighted candles and the birthday "wishes" were all to do with spiritism, predicting the future and protection from evil spirits.

 

[Deeje]

Actually as to the pagan date of winter solstice, that would fall from December 21 to 23rd.

The roots of Christmas can be traced back to pagan Rome with its mixture of festivals for honoring the agricultural god Saturn and the sun god Sol Invictus, or Mithra.

Anthropologists Christian Rätsch and Claudia Müller-Ebeling, coauthors of the book Pagan Christmas, write: “Like many pre-Christian customs and beliefs, the old feast commemorating the yearly return of the sun was rededicated to the birth of Christ.” The birthday of the sun was celebrated on December 25th.

Its not a Christian celebration but a renamed pagan festival in honor of the sun god.

 

[Porque77]

I didn't say his birth....I said his birthday.....that is what the ancient Jews did not celebrate...

I have not talked about birthdays. When the Christmas date arrives, the birth of Jesus is celebrated, because the date reminds us that Jesus was born and came into the world to give his life for his children and teach the commandments that were really given by God.

Christians rejoice over it and celebrate it, and the Gospel does not forbid it. Jesus Christ is merciful and He likes the joy of his children when celebrating his birth.

 

[TheresOnlyNow]

The roots of Christmas can be traced back to pagan Rome with its mixture of festivals for honoring the agricultural god Saturn and the sun god Sol Invictus, or Mithra.

Anthropologists Christian Rätsch and Claudia Müller-Ebeling, coauthors of the book Pagan Christmas, write: “Like many pre-Christian customs and beliefs, the old feast commemorating the yearly return of the sun was rededicated to the birth of Christ.” The birthday of the sun was celebrated on December 25th.

Its not a Christian celebration but a renamed pagan festival in honor of the sun god.

Roman pagan mythology believed that Sol died on December 21 and resurrected 3 days later on the 25th.
If one were to equate Christian holy days with cross over from Roman myth that would sound more akin to Easter. Crucifixion then Resurrection of the dead son of God three days later.

The practice of God worship on Sunday's for Christians is also taken from the Roman's pagan worship calendar. Early Christians were largely converted Jews who would have exampled the Apostles in keeping the Sabbath from sundown Friday unto sundown Saturday.

 

[TheresOnlyNow]

And just to throw this in.
Who cares about pagan history?
As Christians our celebrations honor God and Christ. And that's what matters.
If we get caught up on meaningless pagan history we may consider disposing of that lovely wall calendar we were gifted at work. The days of the week being named after ancient pagan god's and goddesses.
Do we think of that day to day? Does it matter? No. Because Monday is Monday. Not monandaeg, or "moon day".
17 November, 2013

Pagan Gods and the naming of the days