atheism has to face the fact that it's agnostic

[HonestJoe]

That's what I thought until I looked up the definition for atheism, which is the actual dis-belief in deity, afaik, it isn't just the absence, otherwise that opens a whole can of worms imo.

Lots of words have different (often subtly different) meanings and interpretations in different contexts (and that's before you get to any actual misuse or misunderstandings).

Expecting there to be a single definition of any word that applies across the board is unrealistic and I think this is the main sticking point most people are having with your thread. You're looking for a simple answer where none exists. If it did, we'd know it already. It's not as if people much smarter than you and I haven't been over these concepts for hundreds of years already.

Sometimes atheism means a simple lack of belief, sometimes it means an active disbelief in any god or gods, sometimes it means a disbelief in a particular god concept and sometimes it is misused (IMO) to mean someone who hates religion. Given there is a similar variation in meanings and use of the term agnostic (maybe even more), can you understand why your statement that "atheism is agnostic" is more complex that you initially allowed for?

 

[Aristophanes]

Atheism, as a 'disbelief', is great, but it's also necessarily agnostic. An atheist is still in belief/disbelief choice, without knowing for sure.


every atheist is an agnostic.

cheers.

Why is it atheist to agnostic, instead of agnostic to atheist? Is this some type of rebuttal to atheism based on semantics?

From a general philosophical view point, atheism is the rejection of purposed god theories, while agnosticism is a stance of unknowing towards those same theories. There is a crossover, which is typically referred to as agnostic-atheism. At the core, they are both positions to the theory of god(s). However, neither is a position to the undefined.

I tend to accept how people identify themselves. If they say they are atheist, than I would assumes they do so for certain reasons. Reasons that I would not be able to detect with a glance. I assume that most people know their own theological position better than I ever could. Therefore it is rational for me to take them at their word, as they are the authority on their own personal philosophies.

 

[Ingledsva]

Atheism, as a 'disbelief', is great, but it's also necessarily agnostic. An atheist is still in belief/disbelief choice, without knowing for sure.


every atheist is an agnostic.

cheers.

So I guess - in like kind - all Theists are actually Agnostic - as they don't really know - they take it on faith?




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[Desert Snake]

So I guess - in like kind - all Theists are actually Agnostic - as they don't really know - they take it on faith?




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I think you could start a thread with that premise.