Atheism is just another religion

[Pah]

... We humans cannot quantify spirituality or thoughts that transcend the 3 dimensional enpirical world we live in. And so, this opposition to spirituality takes on the form of a religion in its vehemence.

I would beg to differ with you about "We humans cannot quantify ... thoughts that transcend the 3 dimensional ... world". M-theory cetainly gets beyond a 3 dimensial world. Thoughts of a spiritual world are totally subjective until "Aunt Lizzie" comes back for a "show and tell" that would demonstate it exists.

There is also a problem you present when you use "religion" in a atheistic sense. Yes, my beliefs are religiously held - as strong as any Christian's. Yes, money and power are sometimes refered to as "religions". But don't you think that is an injustice, a demeaning, to Christian Religion, to Jewish Religion and the like.

It seems that you would debase your faith in order to compare our respective beliefs. We just don't have the trappings of a faith based, organized, mundane religion.

 

[michel]

You are on a religious forum, discussing religions. Why bother if non exist?

Leave us to our (in your eyes) delusions!

M

So what would you rather ? no debate ? Would there even be a need for a forum if all thought as you do? One of the essentials in formulating what we do believe in is by questioning our thoughts, and being prepared to stand up for them.

 

[Merlin]

Gah! :banghead3

Atheism only denies a belief in a god(s), not religion itself. Not all religions are based on belief in a god(s).

I don't know how I can state that any clearer. Perhaps I'm wasting my time.

Actually, I agree with you. Atheism is a good example of a religion not based on a belief in God

M

 

[Merlin]

So what would you rather ? no debate ? Would there even be a need for a forum if all thought as you do? One of the essentials in formulating what we do believe in is by questioning our thoughts, and being prepared to stand up for them.

I agree Michel. These threads often meander off the point. I actually think they should debate these issues. Their religious views are as valid as any other religions' views.

I was making a simple point of principle. If they know beyond any doubt that there is absolutely nothing, then discussing it seems (for them) pointless.

M

 

[Merlin]

Proving the lack of something (a negative claim) is impossible. For example: Prove that gravity isn't the work of Gnomes.

We are discussing dark matter because we have observable phenomina that we are hypothisizing explanations for. The behavior acts like matter, but isn't visibme (hence "dark matter").

[/QUOTE]Which is why the honest ones of us say "I've no reason to believe one is there".[/QUOTE]
I think this makes you agnostic

[/QUOTE]Do you believe that there are phase-shifted pink unicorns on the moon? You don't believe there are? How do you conclude that's more logical than believing in unicorns? Where is *your* proof?[/QUOTE]
I don't believe that, but if you did, I would leave you alone to have your beliefs. I would not debate them, because I am not interested. I would not go onto a 'Pink Unicorn discussion forum'.

 

[ChrisP]

Curiosity is getting the better of me!

There seems to be more Atheists than Believers around here! ( Though why Atheists would choose to converge on a Religious message board is beyond me. 1 to Merlin ) Perhaps an Admin could tell us which the largest group is in terms of individual religions? Assuming orthodox christianity and R. Catholics are a different religion that is.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Actually, I agree with you. Atheism is a good example of a religion not based on a belief in God

Declaring Atheism a religion is important to you. Why do you think that is the case?

 

[Malus 12:9]

If atheism is religion, "albino" is a suntan.

So is your belief merely: "If you don't believe in God, you must believe in something or someone else."

Why must have belief?

 

[Faust]

Hi all,
I've been gone for awhile but I guess this is as good a place as any to jump back in.
I personally don't see atheism as a religion as much as a belief system. It all comes down to a belief in what.
I don't believe in deity so my system varies from those who do.
As far as participating in this forum I don't wish to attack anothers beliefs but I'm firmly apposed to having the rules of someone elses system thrust upon me. This seems to be happening more and more lately and I believe it is best expressed by Joseph Lieberman when he said that we in america have the freedom of religion, not the freedom from religion. ( I'm paraphrasing )
You see, I don't believe that any one wants to have someone elses belief system thrust upon them and told, this is how you must live. I think thats where most of the zeal comes from.
As far as faith is concerned, let me ask, do you really want to water down the idea of faith? I mean it could be taken to extremes.
Just my thoughts,
Faust.

 

[JerryL]

I think this makes you agnostic

I would disagree. Agnositics have a general belief in God. I have no belief in God

a - no
the - god
ism - belief

I don't believe that, but if you did, I would leave you alone to have your beliefs. I would not debate them, because I am not interested. I would not go onto a 'Pink Unicorn discussion forum'.

Really? Then why are you debating athism? You don't believe in no God.

 

[Green Gaia]

Actually, I agree with you. Atheism is a good example of a religion not based on a belief in God

M

No, that would be Buddhism, Daosim, Unitarian Universalism (in that we don't require belief in God), etc.,....but Atheism is not an example of a religion, it's a description.

 

[Green Gaia]

Curiosity is getting the better of me!

There seems to be more Atheists than Believers around here! ( Though why Atheists would choose to converge on a Religious message board is beyond me. 1 to Merlin )

Do you include Buddhists in that? Daoists? Atheist UUs?

This "Religious" forum is like none other on the internet. We do not promote one religion or belief system over another. We do not require members to hold to any certain beliefs, like you'll find on other forums. We are open to all.

Although the current owner is not an atheist (in fact, he is a Christian), the forum's founder is an atheist and set up this site for people to learn more about all religions and beliefs and to provide a place to discuss and debate those religions and beliefs. Now you tell me why those who hold atheistic beliefs of any religion wouldn't/shouldn't be here.

Perhaps an Admin could tell us which the largest group is in terms of individual religions? Assuming orthodox christianity and R. Catholics are a different religion that is.

I really have no idea. We don't keep any record of that. Nor is it important for us to do so.

 

[ChrisP]

:banghead3 Yeah I wasn't really being that serious. Sorry if I offended.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

If they know beyond any doubt that there is absolutely nothing, then discussing it seems (for them) pointless.

I think you're confused, Merlin. Atheism is nowhere near "knowing beyond any doubt that there is absolutely nothing". It's simply a rejection of belief in a god or god(s). It would be like me accusing you of knowing beyond any doubt that there is absolutely nothing simply because you do not believe in Ahura Mazda or a thousand other deities or myths.

 

[Bennettresearch]

I would beg to differ with you about "We humans cannot quantify ... thoughts that transcend the 3 dimensional ... world". M-theory cetainly gets beyond a 3 dimensial world. Thoughts of a spiritual world are totally subjective until "Aunt Lizzie" comes back for a "show and tell" that would demonstate it exists.

There is also a problem you present when you use "religion" in a atheistic sense. Yes, my beliefs are religiously held - as strong as any Christian's. Yes, money and power are sometimes refered to as "religions". But don't you think that is an injustice, a demeaning, to Christian Religion, to Jewish Religion and the like.

It seems that you would debase your faith in order to compare our respective beliefs. We just don't have the trappings of a faith based, organized, mundane religion.

Hi Pah,

Well you managed to totally miss my point and even what I was calling spirituality. I am not a spiritist, I am spiritual. We cannot quantify the spirit even when we connect with it or are influenced by it, it still doesn't meant that it can be viewed in a finite form. Try to scientifically prove the spirit, a very daunting task and I know aunt Lizzie is not goint to come back.

My observation came from reading posts by Atheists. It is a belief system and a lot of what has been said resembles religion in its steadfast adherance to a belief system which does not believe in God. I'll stand by my statements. It does not demean my religion one bit.

 

[Merlin]

You're actually arguing two different things here, and we atheists are arguing the second point rather than the first.

You're saying that atheists is a relgion, and that religion takes great faith.

As far as atheism being a religion...yeah, I define it as a religion. I define a religion as a belief system, and I believe something, everyone does. By my definition everyone has a religion (even agnostics). That's mostly semantics though. Alot of atheists don't mind having it called a religion.

The point we are arguing though (at least for me) is that it takes great faith to believe in no god. It takes no faith in me to believe in no god. Mainly because a god makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. (besides if you believe in a God just because you will burn in hell otherwise, is that really believing?)

There is no evidence for or against god. That doesn't mean it takes faith to believe in either. I simply take what I know and what is out there, analyze it and then decide which one makes the most sense. No faith involved.

Why does no God make more sense that one God?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Why does no God make more sense that one God?

Why does no Faerie make more sense that one Faerie?

 

[retrorich]

Atheism is typically the consequence of two unrelated belief systems. One is a mode of thought that embraces a teleology without Deity - as perhaps epitomized by Daoism.

The second belief system is naturalism or, more correctly, ontological naturalism (as opposed to methodological naturalism). This system views all that exists as a tapestry of natural processes no matter how incompletely understood, sees morality and ethics as evolved human constructs (judgements), and meaning as a posteriori narrative.

You have perfected the art of making simple things complicated. Atheism, by definition, means without theism (i.e., without belief in God, gods and goddesses) Therefore, atheism is not a religion.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You have perfected the art of making simple things complicated.

I'm sorry that you found it complicated, retrorich.

Atheism, by definition, means without theism (i.e., without belief in God, gods and goddesses)

You might benefit from this - although it is clearly not as simply as you require.

Therefore, atheism is not a religion.

"Therefore"? To assert that "atheism is not a religion" because "atheism ... means without theism" implicitly and erroneously equates religion with theism. You should know better.

 

[retrorich]

I'm sorry that you found it complicated, retrorich.
You might benefit from this - although it is clearly not as simply as you require.
"Therefore"? To assert that "atheism is not a religion" because "atheism ... means without theism" implicitly and erroneously equates religion with theism. You should know better.

Whatever floats your boat, dude.