Atheism is not a belief, so why would anyone lie that it is?

[Kenny]

Your personal and rather tortured definition doesn't work, and is clearly a smoke screen to avoid admitting your superstitious beliefs are unsupported by any objective evidence.

I am an atheist, as I don't believe any deity or deities exist.

It isn't MY definition:
atheism

The term “atheist” describes a person who does not believe that God or a divine being exists.

atheism | Etymology, origin and meaning of atheism by etymonline

"the doctrine that there is no God;"

atheism

the belief that God does not exist:

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm not sure what your first sentence has anything to do with the subject.

And, no, changing the definition of atheism doesn't mean that the definition is correct (unless you are a lawyer and want to squeeze your way out of something )

Then you also have the problem of two dictionaries with different definitions.

noun
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Definition of atheism | Dictionary.com

So, then, ultimately just changing the definition so that one can make an agnostic the same as an atheist doesn't really mean it is correct.

I think the problem has been that atheists had to redefine their definition because they realized they were painting themselves into a hole. So, over time, they do try to change the usage to adjust with the logical position that ultimately it is a faith... a religion of sorts IMO.

Front Page (an atheist church where they can practice their religion)

Atheism means "without theism." That's why the "a" is in front of the word "theism" - it means "without."
I'm an agnostic atheist.

 

[Kenny]

Ah, your area of expertise then, not addressing things.

It's ironic how your claims suddenly become irrelevant to you, when it's demonstrated that you can't defend them?

Tenets of some atheists is not tenets of atheism, but thanks for the belly laugh.

Again... nothing here to really discuss. I accept that you have a differing opinion.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Actually, I've made no claims whatsoever about God existing in this thread. My only point was that atheism is a propositional belief about the existence of God. Not whether or not its true. That's irrelevant. Saying it's not a belief, when it's a statement about whether or not one propositionally believes God exists or not, is dishonest, in my informed opinion.

The "you" was the colloquial usage - as in "someone" or "a person." Anyone. I don't really care about your personal beliefs... unless you try and convince me I should believe, or make remarks that indicate that people who don't believe must feel some form of shame. Then I am going to try and knock you upside your head, get it spinning a little and see if we can't get those thoughts to fly out of your ears due to centrifugal force.

I'm not making an argument about God existing or not. Just that atheism is an answer to theism, which itself is a belief. BOTH are beliefs.

And yes, I admit this. However, anyone claiming actual knowledge on the either side is the problem. And without the ability to confidently establish knowledge in the area, it makes it no better than talking about fairies on one side or the other. Can you imagine how irritating it would be if your neighbor just kept hounding you about watching out for the fairies that could invade your garden? And he offered you totems to protect yourself, and wanted to regale you with tales of how he has thwarted the fairies' advances into his own garden, and then... when you told him "look, I just don't believe in fairies man" he freaked out and acted like he was insulted, and told you that you should be ashamed, etc. Can you imagine? I mean... what an absolute butthole that neighbor would be, am I right?

 

[Kenny]

Well, except that I am entirely "against theism" to boot. And I do hold the belief that there is no God, I just don't argue the point because there is literally no point to do so. It is a personal belief, and that is as far as it goes. I will never claim to "know."

Why do I go after theists then, you might ask? Well... I also feel very strongly that there is no way they can possibly know either, and yet they keep claiming that they do. And I have to keep listening to it. You're probably inured to the claims and statements by this point, and believe anyway - but believe me, its freaking everywhere. And because I feel these people can't know what they claim to know, and because their justifications are so very, very terrible and worthless in EVERY SINGLE ENCOUNTER I have ever had where someone explains their justifications to me, I go against that grain. I am bound to. By honor, by the rigors of intellectualism, by conscience - I am BOUND.

And I truly am OK with that.

I always use the analogy that we encounter with so many scientists. Two people looking at the same thing but coming to two different conclusions. But we can still live together.

What may be garbage for one person can be the treasure of another.

 

[Sheldon]

The term “atheist” describes a person who does not believe that God or a divine being exists.

It is a "belief".

Hilarious....not believing is a belief now. So you hold separate beliefs for each and every thing you don't believe in? It's always fascinating to see theist tying themselves in knots, and doing these mental cartwheels.

 

[SkepticThinker]

This is a reflection of the Atheist doctrine of pessimistic despair in general:

"TO THE UNBELIEVING materialist, man is simply an evolutionary accident. His hopes of survival are strung on a figment of mortal imagination; his fears, loves, longings, and beliefs are but the reaction of the incidental juxtaposition of certain lifeless atoms of matter. No display of energy nor expression of trust can carry him beyond the grave. The devotional labors and inspirational genius of the best of men are doomed to be extinguished by death, the long and lonely night of eternal oblivion and soul extinction. Nameless despair is man's only reward for living and toiling under the temporal sun of mortal existence. Each day of life slowly and surely tightens the grasp of a pitiless doom which a hostile and relentless universe of matter has decreed shall be the crowning insult to everything in human desire which is beautiful, noble, lofty, and good." UB 1955

Not my "doctrine."

 

[SkepticThinker]

The problem with this overused analogy is that it doesn't leave room for being wrong...
Real 'Siberian unicorn' remains found | CNN

OOPS! They found the remains of a real unicorn.

OOPS! Maybe there is a real God? Since what we know is so limited and finite in comparison to the knowledge to be discovered...

Do you believe unicorn remains were found, or do you lack belief in that claim?

 

[Kenny]

Do you believe unicorn remains were found, or do you lack belief in that claim?

Do you believe there were no unicorns? Or was that just "I didn't have enough information".

 

[RestlessSoul]

Well, except that I am entirely "against theism" to boot. And I do hold the belief that there is no God, I just don't argue the point because there is literally no point to do so. It is a personal belief, and that is as far as it goes. I will never claim to "know."

Why do I go after theists then, you might ask? Well... I also feel very strongly that there is no way they can possibly know either, and yet they keep claiming that they do. And I have to keep listening to it. You're probably inured to the claims and statements by this point, and believe anyway - but believe me, its freaking everywhere. And because I feel these people can't know what they claim to know, and because their justifications are so very, very terrible and worthless in EVERY SINGLE ENCOUNTER I have ever had where someone explains their justifications to me, I go against that grain. I am bound to. By honor, by the rigors of intellectualism, by conscience - I am BOUND.

Well done. You have all the characteristics of a zealot.

 

[Sheldon]

It isn't MY definition:
atheism

The term “atheist” describes a person who does not believe that God or a divine being exists.

atheism | Etymology, origin and meaning of atheism by etymonline

"the doctrine that there is no God;"

atheism

the belief that God does not exist:

Yeah nothing here to address.

 

[Kenny]

Yeah nothing here to address.

YUP! You can't argue with what is written.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Do you believe there were no unicorns? Or was that just "I didn't have enough information".

I don't positively believe the claim that there are unicorns - if someone is to make that claim. However - would I be entirely open to concrete evidence that unicorns exist? Absolutely. Say we eventually find something that matches the description of a unicorn on some other planet, or some crazy geneticist basically crafts them through some process of genetic editing and using artificial means of selection or something. These things are not necessarily outside the realm of possibility. Given the state of various creatures on the planet who have developed horns, and the visual aspect of a horse which is also very familiar, thinking of a creature who mimics the aspect of a horse while also sporting a horn is not some huge stretch of the imagination. Seems entirely plausible physically and/or genetically. But do I believe they exist currently? No. Because we also have a bunch of stories, and stories alone as the only actual "evidence." Oops... not good enough. Dang. So close! Not really...

 

[Sheldon]

Atheism means "without theism." That's why the "a" is in front of the word "theism" - it means "without."
I'm an agnostic atheist.

Like amoral and asexual, it's not really that complex. You'll note these asinine attempts to redefine words only occurs when theists are threatened by demands for them to properly evidence their beliefs. At least they can't stone us or burn us at the stake anymore. If dishonest semantics is the worst they can torture us with, that's progress I suppose.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Well done. You have all the characteristics of a zealot.

And? What are you going to do about it? Tell my mom?

Seriously. You throw around these terms like they are supposed to scare me into relenting or something. Why do you think that is going to work? Please tell me. I am genuinely interested to hear your rationale on this.

 

[Sheldon]

YUP! You can't argue with what is written.

Nothing here to discuss sorry, if you want to honestly address the topic I'll take a look.

Atheism
noun

1. disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

 

[SkepticThinker]

By its very etymology:
The term “atheist” describes a person who does not believe that God or a divine being exists.

It is a "belief".

atheism

It's a non-belief.

 

[Revoltingest]

How do you come to that conclusion?

Is definitely not fishing a hobby?

Strong atheism....I believe there are no gods.
Weak atheism....I don't believe gods exist.

Both of those are not religions....except in
the context of Ameristanian laws.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

YUP! You can't argue with what is written.

Here... please tell me the meaning of the word "apple" given the following dictionary entry:

apple - noun

1. the usually round, red or yellow, edible fruit of a small tree, Malus sylvestris, of the rose family.
2. the tree, cultivated in most temperate regions.
3. the fruit of any of certain other species of tree of the same genus.
4. any of these trees.
5. any of various other similar fruits, or fruitlike products or plants, as the custard apple, love apple, May apple, or oak apple.

 

[Kenny]

I don't positively believe the claim that there are unicorns - if someone is to make that claim.

However - would I be entirely open to concrete evidence that unicorns exist? Absolutely. Say we eventually find something that matches the description of a unicorn on some other planet, or some crazy geneticist basically crafts them through some process of genetic editing and using artificial means of selection or something. These things are not necessarily outside the realm of possibility.

Real 'Siberian unicorn' remains found | CNN

remains found....

Given the state of various creatures on the planet who have developed horns, and the visual aspect of a horse which is also very familiar, thinking of a creature who mimics the aspect of a horse while also sporting a horn is not some huge stretch of the imagination. Seems entirely plausible physically and/or genetically. But do I believe they exist currently? No. Because we also have a bunch of stories, and stories alone as the only actual "evidence." Oops... not good enough. Dang. So close! Not really...